any thoughts on this strange inscription? I can't figure out what it is saying

[Mark]

the sword is signed Bizen norimitsu (sue koto). on the other side is this inscription --- it is inlaid with a soft metal, maybe copper. Strange that it starts on the polished part of the blade. I can read Kyoho 11 3rd month (written without the kanji for year), but i am lost with the rest. With the date it was clearly added after the sword was made.

 

Any help appreciated!!

 

Thanks

 

mark

[SteveM]

It looks like

享保十一三月無持之所拷胴落

with low confidence in the characters in blue, and no confidence in the character in red.

It is a saidan-mei, but I can't tell which kind of cut.

It isn't a typical saidan mei, as you probably already know. Also, you wouldn't carve any part of a saidan mei on the shinogi part of the sword. 

So one has to flip through the possibilities:

1. The inscription is faked by someone who doesn't know what they are doing?

2. The inscription was deliberately carved into the shinogi?

3. Part of the inscription was properly carved on the nakago, and the year/date was added later?

 

[Mark]

Steve

 

thanks! I had not thought of the date being added after the inscription, interesting idea. The whole inscription is inlaid with copper (maybe) so i thought it was all done at once but i guess the inscription after the date could have been just carved and when the date was added (if it was) then the whole thing inlaid to give the idea it was all done together. But why add a date? And why that date?  Doesn't seem to have any logical reason.  I had guessed it was done by someone who was not an expert, like maybe a samurai or someone in the "sticks" and that is why it is like that. i am probably wrong.  It seems so strange that it would cause more concern than increase value so can't see the upside for whoever did it.  I thought it may be a test but also wondered if it was information about an owner, i just coundn't make anything from it.

Thanks for the look and suggestions.  I will keep working on it, any other suggestions welcomed

 

mark

[Mark]

Steve

 

is it possible to get the romanji for the kanji, it is challenging to try and get anywhere with the questionable kanji.  Probably never figure out what it is intended to mean but i will work on it.

[SteveM]

享保十一三月無持之所拷胴落

Kyōhō jūichi Sangatsu Mu mochi-no-tokoro Gōdō otoshi

 

享保十一三月無持之所拷胴落

The problematic ones (無 and 拷) are underlined above.

I find the date to be a bit problematic also because of the way the numbers are written. It's a very confusing way to write the date, which nearly all inscribers avoid by using the zodiac system, or by putting the word "year" after the number of the year, so as to keep the year distinct from the month. By not doing that, the person who has inscribed this has written "Kyōhō Ten One Three Month", which is as confusing in Japanese as it is in English. 

 

 

 

[Mark]

Steve

 

thanks. that is helpful.  It is hard for me to figure the purpose and motivation for doing the inscription.  If someone in this country did it recently i would think they would copy a simple known example. If the 無持之所拷胴落  was done then the date added later why would someone add the date where they did, they would start with 享保 so why put it on the polished part, they could have written it next to the other inscription. Its not like they started then ran out of room for the end, i guess they could do it backward and end up on the blade but seems strange.  And why add a date, the inscription could stand alone and i don't see any benefit to having that date added.

 

Anyway a conundrum. I always think of the motivation, if someone is trying to "tart up" a blade to increase value there are plenty of references to copy. Anyway maybe eventually i will come to some conclusion. I do appreciate your patience helping

 

mark