Need Info on Dad's Sword

WillieGilligan · June 30, 2022

My dad served in WWII in the Philippines. His main service was on the Ville Verde Trail. When he came home, he brought a couple things with him, one off which was a sword. I recently came into possession of this sword, and I'm looking for any information I can get on it. I am including pictures (I think it'll take 4 posts given the size limits).

I have tried to get pictures of all aspects of the sword. The tsuka is in bad shape. I have not removed the mekugi and taken the tsuka off yet to check for anything and frankly, I'm a bit nervous about doing that given the shape of the tsuka. I will do so if needed though. If any other pictures are needed, let me know and I will take them.

If lower resolution pictures are ok, I will start sizing them down some. Just let me know.

Any information will be appreciated. Thanks!

WillieGilligan · June 30, 2022

More.....

WillieGilligan · June 30, 2022

WillieGilligan · June 30, 2022

Tensho · June 30, 2022

Well, someone has already messed with it before considering the habaki is a two-piece design and is missing a piece, not to mention it is installed upside down on the blade. Chances are its a traditionally made blade, but the tsuka will need to be removed so the nakago can he seen.

ChrisW · June 30, 2022

To help people more positively identify what you have, a few suggestions:

Remove all the fittings (handle, etc) from the blade and lay it on a flat soft surface (a clean blanket under it should suffice). You can remove the handle (tsuka) by gently tapping that retaining peg (mekugi) out of the handle.

Take a full length picture of the blade and then take several more, closing in on the following:

- nakago (tang)

- any potential writing, especially on the nakago

- any details in the metal that can be seen!

Please refrain from doing any cleaning of the blade itself! If you have something older (the habaki aka blade collar indicates that possibly), you don't want to do any further damage to it. Also, giving us some measurements may help in understanding it better, measurements such as: overall length, length of the tang, length of the cutting edge, etc.

WillieGilligan · July 1, 2022

Thanks guys! I have removed the tsuka and taken a few more pictures. The blade seems to be around 83 cm, and the cutting edge is about 66 cm, the the nakago around 17 cm. You can see in the first picture taken of the entire blade next to a tape measure. There is no writing on the nakago. There is no writing on the blade. It does appear there is a fingerprint on the blade, also a notch. You can see the hamon (temper line) in one of the original pictures (next to last). I found the heart shaped holes in the tsuba and the inner seppa. I also took a picture of the blade latch, which is broken.

WillieGilligan · July 1, 2022

And these......

Grey Doffin · July 1, 2022

Hi Jim,

Pretty sure this is an older blade put into mounts from WWII. No one will be able to tell you too much more about it from pictures; it needs to be seen in hand by someone knowledgeable and honest. The advice you were given to not try to clean or fix anything was right on; don't do it. Make sure you put the bamboo peg back in the handle when you put the sword back together; it is very important.

Grey

PNSSHOGUN · July 1, 2022

The mounts are Type 94 pattern, circa 1934-1938.

Brian · July 1, 2022

Agree with Grey. An early blade, likely a few hundred years old.
Get some oil on it, and wipe lightly. Keep doing that until no more rust comes off. Use NOTHING abrasive.

ChrisW · July 1, 2022

A high purity mineral oil or a good quality choji oil will be the best thing to wipe it down with! Get plain unscented, no-lotion tissue paper to apply oil. Avoid anything abrasive as Brian said!

PNSSHOGUN · July 1, 2022

The Nakago has a late Muromachi Mino school feel to it with the shape and Taka no ha Yasurime.

WillieGilligan · July 1, 2022

It has been fascinating reading the comments. This sword has a high likelihood of being brought from the field of battle, along with a couple other items. I look forward to any other observations.

I will find a good quality oil to put on it. What is the best way to go about displaying it? I have my dad’s shadow box on the wall and would like to display this with it.

Thanks for all your help!

Jim

SteveM · July 1, 2022

To tell the truth, I wouldn't be displaying this sword - not if its a 500 year old sword. Of course we are all just looking at rough pictures posted on the internet, so there is no guaranteeing that the sword is that old. However, if it is that old, it should be stored far away from curious hands and humidity and vibrations and the millions of things that could cause subtle (or not so subtle) damage over time. Display the scabbard and the fittings and the other militaria as you like, but keep the bare blade stored in a separate plain scabbard (called a shirasaya in the Japanese sword-collecting world). The scabbard and the fittings can be held together by means of a wooden "dummy" sword (called a tsunagi).

Sorry for all the terminology, but the Japanese sword world has its own language which, for better or worse, comes to us from centuries of Japanese scholars, writers, collectors, swordsmiths, and other artisans, and those of us in the west just knuckle down and use the Japanese terms as best we can.

There are craftsmen who make these things, even in the US. But before you go too far down that path, it would really be wise to have someone take a look at the sword in hand, to advise if it is really old, and if it is worth restoring with a properly trained Japanese sword polisher. Some brighter pictures of both sides of the tang (nakago) might help too. And I'd be using a tissue or gloves or a handkerchief to handle the sword, so as not to put any fingerprints on it.

WillieGilligan · July 2, 2022

Thanks for all the feedback. I will see about more pictures of the nakago. The mekugi does not align exactly which makes it interesting. Also, what is a good quality oil that you recommend?

SteveM · July 2, 2022

There is a mighty long thread on this site somewhere with various oils and how they compared. I can't find it, but here is another one that has some links to the whole oil discussion.

Basically, lightweight oil is best. Traditionally the Japanese (and most of us) use camellia oil with a bit of choji oil (clove oil) added for scent, but also apparently added for its anti-bacterial properties, which is good for when the blade is stored in a wooden scabbard. But it doesn't need to be camellia oil. Other lightweight oils work about as well. Note that gun oils tend to be more tacky, and so sword collectors avoid them. Anyway, there is a lot of useful discussion about care and maintenance in these threads.

David Flynn · July 2, 2022

That's the first time I've heard Camelia oil mixed with Choji? Why?

WillieGilligan · July 3, 2022

Is there someone in the Indiana/Ohio area that you would recommend? I really was mainly interested in what type, etc when I came on here, but I admit I’m a little intrigued. If I were to get someone to inspect it, I want to make sure I get a good, qualified person. I may just be happy knowing what I know now. This was my dad’s, and that’s the most important thing to me. My dad was a Bronze Star Medal winner, a Presidential Unit Citation winner, and would never talk about it. The write up I found for the Presidential Unit Citation was enough to show me a little glimpse of what he went through……

WillieGilligan · July 3, 2022

9 hours ago, SteveM said:

Basically, lightweight oil is best. Traditionally the Japanese (and most of us) use camellia oil with a bit of choji oil (clove oil) added for scent, but also apparently added for its anti-bacterial properties, which is good for when the blade is stored in a wooden scabbard. But it doesn't need to be camellia oil. Other lightweight oils work about as well. Note that gun oils tend to be more tacky, and so sword collectors avoid them. Anyway, there is a lot of useful discussion about care and maintenance in these threads.

Thanks Steve! Got any good sources where I can get the camellia oil/clove oil mix?

SteveM · July 3, 2022

Here's one source,

From a member of the forum

https://swordsofjapan.com/sword-oil/

You can buy from Amazon as well.

SteveM · July 3, 2022

5 hours ago, David Flynn said:

That's the first time I've heard Camelia oil mixed with Choji? Why?

choji oil (clove oil) added for scent, but also apparently added for its anti-bacterial properties, which is good for when the blade is stored in a wooden scabbard.

robinalexander · July 3, 2022

Not wishing to detract from Jim's thread but I recently changed to Camellia Oil from Choji on the advice of a good sword mate. Good thick product tks.

BUT, Steve us spot on in regard to Clove Oils anti-bacterial properties. If you need to kill mould (not just get rid of it for a while) then Clove Oil can't be beaten. Natural and so much safer than other products. [Dilution is critical]

I miss the aroma Choji when maintaing my high end blades but its a win for the 95's that, in the past, only got sewing machine oil. 😊

Rob

WillieGilligan · July 3, 2022

9 hours ago, SteveM said:

choji oil (clove oil) added for scent, but also apparently added for its anti-bacterial properties, which is good for when the blade is stored in a wooden scabbard.

What exactly is in this? I can’t read Japanese……

SteveM · July 3, 2022

"Chōji oil" is literally clove oil. Oil from the clove spice. It was/is used to oil Japanese swords. Nowadays mineral oil or camellia oil is used for the same purpose. Sometimes it is scented with, or blended with, oil from clove plants to give it a pleasant smell and to give it some anti bacterial properties. I've also read that clove oil helps inhibit rust, but you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

All of this info (and more) is in those links that I posted.