Rust Resistant Steel blade stamps Kai Gunto

[robinalexander]

Greetings. 

 

This may well have been raised before but I will put it up anyway. Maybe a question for Bruce @Bruce Pennington

Bruce, I have been through your VERY good reference tool 'Stamps of the Japanese Sword' but I admit, have not done any lengthy research through NMB generally.

 

I have a rust resistant blade in standard Kai Gunto mounts (although everything, and I mean everything, is numbered 89). It's mumei with no 'arsenal' stamps.  However, it does have stamps on each side of the nakago and I have no real idea what they are.

 

1. Picture 1.... A WA stamp that would indicate 1941 ? (page 27 of your publication above).  This is followed by number '119'.

 

2. Picture 2.....On reverse side of nakago a small hollow 'figure 8' stamp (Picture 2)

 

3. And while I'm at it, picture 3 also shows a small stamp on the tsuba

 

As I mentioned, every single piece of this package is numbered 89.

 

Any views would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Rob

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

2 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Greetings. 

 

 

 

 It's mumei with no 'arsenal' stamps.  

1. Picture 1.... A WA stamp that would indicate 1941 ? (page 27 of your publication above).  This is followed by number '119'.

 

 

 

That ワ mark could be from 川越製造所 Kawagoe factory under  東京第一陸軍造兵廠 Tokyo first arsenal.

 

[robinalexander]

Thanks Trystan.... the lack of any more common navy arsenal stamp (Toyokawa) made me wonder about this.

 

I note the 'hollow figure 8" mark (pic 2) is mentioned in Bruce's paper (page 51) as unknown Kai stamp.  So apparently no change there.

 

I also assume the mark on the Tsuba (pic 3) is a makers mark.

 

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Rob!  Thanks for the post!

1.  That chart you referenced on pg 27 of the Stamps Doc is specific to the SMR Mantetsu operation.  To my knowledge, no one else was using the I Ro Ha sequential system.

2.  That little stamp, to me, looks like a gourd, and now, we have a possible shop!  I'll do some digging to see if I can found out where the original one came from, but I'm not usually very good at finding stuff like that!

3.  I agree, the stamp on the tsuba looks like it could be a shop logo.  @IJASWORDS - Neil any chance of finding a page in your book on the 川越製造所 Kawagoe factory?

 

Thanks @BANGBANGSAN for the possible shop name!

[robinalexander]

Bruce @Bruce Pennington appreciate the additional information and research possibilities. 

 

Although the blade is in quite good condition, the fact is that its a real 'plain Jane' Showa-To and while better blades may be more deserving of the research, its great to be able to identify the various markings.

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

17 minutes ago, robinalexander said:

plain Jane' Showa-To and while better blades may be more deserving of the research

Rob,

My research is on the practice of stamping numbers, and covers Army, Navy, Showato, gendaito, and zoheito.  It's the stamping that I chase.

 

Here's the other one.  Just discovered that it's stamped "384" and I didn't have that numbered blade in the chart!  By the looks of it, it's likely a stainless blade too.

[robinalexander]

Yep that's the one and stainless alright.

 

Found this old link as well in regard to the 'gourd' stamp.

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, robinalexander said:

 

Found this old link as well in regard to the 'gourd' stamp.

Thanks Rob!  Records annotated now.

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Bruce Pennington

Bruce

I'm afraid there is no "shop logo" for 川越製造所 Kawagoe Factory. It is not a civilian contractor shop for the Army, but the factory owned and operated by IJA locate in 埼玉県上福岡市 Saitama Prefecture Kamifukuoka city.

 https://senseki-kikou.net/?p=9774&amp=1 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

 

I'm afraid there is no "shop logo" for 川越製造所 Kawagoe Factory.

Ok Trystan.  So the logo on the tsuba must be from another shop that made the fittings.  I'll file it in "Unknown".

[BANGBANGSAN]

12 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Ok Trystan.  So the logo on the tsuba must be from another shop that made the fittings.  I'll file it in "Unknown".

The "8" mark maybe from Hiroshima Arsenal 

 

 

[robinalexander]

Well given all info so far Trystan,  thats got to be a real  possibility. 

 

Nice work.

[Bruce Pennington]

Certainly a possibility.  Never saw that arsenal mark before. 

I have 2 concerns, though.

1.  I have never seen an arsenal inspector mark at the end of a nakago.  But I have seen religious symbology and other markings there.  On both of these, there is a small 'stem' at the top like a gourd:

 

2. Has anyone every heard of the Hiroshima Arsenal processing swords?

[robinalexander]

Is it possible there are more of these tiny 'gourd' stamps on nakago's that haven't yet been noticed?

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Is it possible there are more of these tiny 'gourd' stamps on nakago's that haven't yet been noticed?

Sure.  Part of my frustration in tracking these things, is guys often don't post a photo of the entire nakago when asking about a mei translation.  Sometimes simply discussing a stamp will generate 1 or 2 more from guys reading posts, though.

[robinalexander]

Where's there's life, theres hope.