Peter Bleed Posted June 14, 2022 Report Posted June 14, 2022 Colleagues, Can any one point me to a thoughtful treatment of Namban tsubas that have/had/or show a squared mid section of the nakago-ana? And what about those Chinese looking guards that present rectangular ana? Peter Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 Peter do you mean this square hole? "The Namban Group of Japanese Sword Guards: a Reappraisal" by Dr. John Philip Lissenden https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/asian-export-sword-guard-0 https://archive.org/details/CRBoxer1931394/mode/2up?q=European+influence+on+Japanese+"sword-fittings%2C"+"1543-1853"+by+C+R+Boxer For those who like to know the author. 2 Quote
Chishiki Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 Nice link. Thanks for sharing it. Mark Quote
Peter Bleed Posted June 15, 2022 Author Report Posted June 15, 2022 Dale, Thank you very much! Indeed, that is exactly the feature that I was asking about. I must also acknowledge that I was aware of Dr. Lessenden's work. Indeed, I served as the outside evaluator on this thesis committee in 2002. He viewed these as "altered nakago-hitsu"and tried hard to link them to VOC symbology. I certainly respect this work, but I am suspicious of that explanation. I am trying to frame my suspicions positively. I especially appreciate the copy of the Boxer study. Indeed, I have never seen it so I am looking forward to reading it this evening! Thank you Once again the NMB has worked! Peter 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 Peter, well the hitsu have not been altered in at least one design, of which I have images of three [one being my own]. The 'niku' around the nakago-ana proves it was part of the original design and not added later. Three other designs all with niku around the square cut nakago-ana. links to same: https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/asian-export-sword-guard-0 https://www.facebook.com/Asian-Export-sword-guards-and-Nanban-tsuba-564035753684007/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0&_rdr https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/refined-beauty-Japanese-art-of-the-edo-period/a-group-of-nine-nanban-tsuba-52/18656?lid=4&sc_lang=zh-cn Altered European guards - 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 6 hours ago, Peter Bleed said: Dale, Thank you very much! Indeed, that is exactly the feature that I was asking about. I must also acknowledge that I was aware of Dr. Lessenden's work. Indeed, I served as the outside evaluator on this thesis committee in 2002. He viewed these as "altered nakago-hitsu"and tried hard to link them to VOC symbology. I certainly respect this work, but I am suspicious of that explanation. I am trying to frame my suspicions positively. My opinion is simple and arrogant: Unfortunately almost everything concerning namban tsubas being "really" reworked european or reworked chinese or vietnamese is more bizarre than its not. The curvature is wrong (too flat), the mimi is wrong, the manner of carving is wrong, unless in almost all cases we are talking about Japanese imitation or something inspired by outside influences. And I thought the square ones are "supposed" to represent altered smallsword-European items, Chinese ones tend to be rectangular, sometimes large enough to be actually filled in with copper rather than expanded? I've seen couple of Hizen tsubas which indeed looked very Chinese and probably were reworked Chinese examples... Kofun and earlier Nara will be rectangular, whether continental (very rare) or Japanese, but I guess its not about those? 1 1 Quote
JohnTo Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 I see that Dale has posted two examples of nanban mask tsuba from my collection, so I won't post them again. A different line of research that I have tried to follow is Korea. The Japanese invaded Korea in the late 16th C under Hideyoshi and finally withdrew when Ieyasu established the Togugawa shogunate in the early 1600s. Some people date these 'Canton' tsuba from this time period, whereas others date them later, but I think both dates are guestimates rather than based upon evidence. I have failed to find any detailed examples of Korean swords from this period, but some looked very much like Japanese swords. Could these tsuba have originated on Korean swords and been taken back to Japan as war booty and reused? As I said, my research has drawn a blank, particularly with regard to the shape of Korean sword tangs. Best regards, John 2 Quote
Peter Bleed Posted June 16, 2022 Author Report Posted June 16, 2022 This thread has produced some interesting insights, worthy observations, and a couple of informative conversations. Thank you. Please allow me to attach this image of some of the various types of tsuba that are behind my initial inquiry. Peter 1 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 16, 2022 Report Posted June 16, 2022 Sorry I don't have any more square hole namban but you might want to add this strange mask face to your list - a real blend of features. The hitsu are clearly Japanese design but that is about all. 69.9 mm x 67.9 mm x 7.5 mm Wt. 89g. Hizen? [likely cast and reworked] 1 Quote
roger dundas Posted June 16, 2022 Report Posted June 16, 2022 An outstanding conversation and dissection from my point of view. NMB at its best ? Roger j 2 Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 16, 2022 Report Posted June 16, 2022 The Ashmolean Museum in Oxford has two square cut nakago-ana namban, amongst their other examples. The holes look cut in at a later date. [Which would seem odd given the date on the second guard?] http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10367 Each guard has a good written description. EAX.10809 Two symmetrical ascending dragons amid a little scrollwork; between them, above and below the plain oblong seppadai, are two rosettes with sunk centres (settings for stones?); to right and left are two similar rosettes with palmette extensions above and below them; gold dot eyes; gold nunome on rosettes and palmette borders; kozuka-hole cut later. 18th century (1701 - 1800) 7.4 x 6.9 cm EAX.10815 The front modelled in low relief with a demon-mask above and below, each between a pair of divergent "horns", which help to enclose on either side a panel of fine undercut scrollwork; this is, however, largely invaded by the wing-like ornament beyond each of the ryōhitsu; similar conventional ornament covers all other parts of the front, including the seppadai. The back is cupped and plain, except for the seppadai and winged ryōhitsu, which here rise to the normal thickness of the guard and are decorated as on the front. Kōgai-hole plugged with gold of basketwork surface. 19th century (1801 - 1900) 6.9 x 6.5 cm Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 17, 2022 Report Posted June 17, 2022 http://www.nihonto.us/NAMBAN DM115.htm You might want to see this link as well. Quote
Jacques Posted June 17, 2022 Report Posted June 17, 2022 I don't know much about tosogu (that's why I don't intervene) but I already saw tsuba with this kind of nakago ana on yari converted into wakizashi or tanto Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 17, 2022 Report Posted June 17, 2022 Peter, I don't know if this guard [196] from a Christies auction back in 1999 fits into the square hole format? 2 Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 25, 2022 Report Posted June 25, 2022 This guard is having a bit of an orientation problem, The way the nakago-ana is cut, allows it to be fitted either way around. Not sure this guard fits in with the thread but it does have a cross shape hole? From a Bonhams auction 2010 https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17945/lot/307/?category=list&length=12&page=1 1 Quote
Peter Bleed Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Posted June 25, 2022 Dale, and friends, this has been an interesting bit of conversation. I am wondering - and truly unsure - about how active sword barrers (samurai, I guess) were in adjusting their koashirae. We individual free/able/ and expected to switch out their guards? Could guys change their tsuba as we (used to) change ties or cuff links? Thank you all for an interesting - and edifying - thread! Peter Quote
Spartancrest Posted August 13, 2022 Report Posted August 13, 2022 Late post but what to make of this? The first tanto size guard with a square hole - neither Chinese nor European pattern. How do we explain this? Quote
Geraint Posted August 13, 2022 Report Posted August 13, 2022 Hi Dale. I would sugest that this example fits with the suggestion regarding yari converted to tanto that Jacques made above. As you say there is nothing to suggest that the guard is anything other than Japanese but it would make perfecct sense as part of a tanto koshirae to accomodate the square tang of a yari. All the best. 1 Quote
EdWolf Posted October 8, 2022 Report Posted October 8, 2022 I was reading some old books and noticed a nice tsuba with a VOC- ship. It has also a square hole in the middle of the nakago hitsu ana. Not much information about the tsuba and the book is printed in Japanese with only a few English sentences. 3 Quote
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