Unusual tanto tsuba

[Okan]

Can anyone recognize the shape or school of this tsuba? I'm stuck.

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Looks a bit like the DIY school, late 20th century, with some paint embellishment, but I may be completely off.

[Tensho]

Imo, looks like a modernish(less than 100 years)cast tsuba that someone messed with. I feel like I have seen this before considering the "drill bit bite mark" next to the Kogai hitsu-ana

[Curran]

School of tsuba is Playskool.

Of the Hasbro region.

[Spartancrest]

Sorry to disagree with most of the 'analysis' - it appears to be a cut down of a larger guard, likely with rim damage that was removed. There are several examples where this has been done. The cut down was done much further back in time than the 'recent' drill damage. The patchy patina is also pretty common from an over clean in the past.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Spartancrest
more evidence

[Okan]

Wow @Spartancrest!! This is some academic level work. I guess someone drilled it to see what's inside or tried to make a necklace I'm not sure. So this is a suriage tsuba.. from a wakizashi to a tanto  

Thank you very much for your hard work! 

[Spartancrest]

Okan, I think it is termed 'O-suriage' at least that is what a 'shortened blade' is called. They are more common than you may think - they must be because I have three at least myself, including this 'pair' - the central area of both tsuba are identical in size and the smaller one shows clear chisel marks at each separation. Not a true Daisho.

[Spartancrest]

Sometimes you have to be very careful there is a fine line between re-shaped and trashed guards. 

Like this one - https://www.jauce.com/auction/r1051664170 it says Tachi tsuba but in reality it was probably an O-seppa that has been broken and 'evened up'. [and not that well either!]

 

Or this obvious cast sukashi that is just the remains of the seppa-dai 

 

This one is to be found in the Toledo Museum of Art from the Edward Drummond Libbey collection - obviously cut down from a very common form. [No colour image available] number 1912.720

 

it is amazing how the removal of two lines can change the look.    

Edited June 3, 2022 by Spartancrest
new image

[ROKUJURO]

Dale,

thank you, that makes sense!

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

@Spartancrest is a NMB National Treasure

[Okan]

@Spartancrest what do you think about the shape..perhaps a mon?

 

@Infinite_Wisdumb indeed!

[GRC]

Outstanding detective work Dale! 

[Spartancrest]

Okan, I forgot to ask if there is any 'niku'  [raised borders] on your guard? It looks like it in some areas but the images are not definitive. There is a lot of wear. I don't think it is a Mon design.

 

 

There are a few similarities to these Kamakura-bori guards but I couldn't say yours was from this period or style. [six inome around the seppa-dai]

 

https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/tsu-0345-2018/ and  https://tsuba.jyuluck-do.com/KamakuraTsuba.html

might be as close as I can find - both Kamakura 'style'. I think the guard would have been much better than it looks now.

 

 

[Okan & Jesse - Yes I was rescued from a deep pit by Nicolas Cage back in 2004 - although I look like a bald version of John Voight ! - Film fans will work it out. ]

[ Glen - OK, Hercule Poirot without the moustache! 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

Found this plain current piece - https://www.jauce.com/auction/b393880727  Just as an example, the red lines would represent the chisel cuts and then you would have a very similar guard [only four lobes in this case but I think you can get the idea.]

[Spartancrest]

When it is worth doing it is worth 'over doing'. Like I said plenty of precedent out there.

[Bugyotsuji]

So the likely original pattern was maybe Warabité or unfurling baby fern tips.

[Okan]

On 6/4/2022 at 4:38 AM, Spartancrest said:

Okan, I forgot to ask if there is any 'niku'  [raised borders] on your guard? It looks like it in some areas but the images are not definitive. There is a lot of wear. I don't think it is a Mon design.

 

 

There are a few similarities to these Kamakura-bori guards but I couldn't say yours was from this period or style. [six inome around the seppa-dai]

 

https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/tsu-0345-2018/ and  https://tsuba.jyuluck-do.com/KamakuraTsuba.html

might be as close as I can find - both Kamakura 'style'. I think the guard would have been much better than it looks now.

 

 

[Okan & Jesse - Yes I was rescued from a deep pit by Nicolas Cage back in 2004 - although I look like a bald version of John Voight ! - Film fans will work it out. ]

[ Glen - OK, Hercule Poirot without the moustache! 

 

 

I’ll take some better pics when i go back home. I came to Istanbul for vacation  also, i can’t see the john voight pic! It just says image.png

[Okan]

15 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

When it is worth doing it is worth 'over doing'. Like I said plenty of precedent out there.

 

These are great!! You really need to turn this into an article! It is going to be very valuable

[Spartancrest]

This guard is shaped very close to the original guard posted but it has not been cut down as far as I can tell - the inome outlines are as first made.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/403618712930   73mm in Diameter

 

 

The other images are possible cut downs but not much direct evidence so a big question mark remains.

 

Phoenix guard - ironic, second life as a sculpture. The 'full' guard from the Copenhagen museum is pretty close but not an exact match.

[Spartancrest]

For me I have found this search for the origin of Okan's tsuba has lead me to an area of study that would seem to have never been explored before.

I have to amend my earlier statement of 

On 6/3/2022 at 9:40 PM, Spartancrest said:

because I have three at least myself

because I have more than I at first thought.

 

I would love other members of the forum to have a close look at their own collections and see if they have other candidates for 'cut down' guards.

These are two more of my examples. For anyone interested in the tsuba display stands [which I highly recommend] you might like to give [Steves87] a PM. he can give you information on them as he prints them in a number of colours and styles.

 

[Spartancrest]

This rather bizarre tsuba has just been listed  - https://www.jauce.com/auction/b1053959631 - I cannot believe the guard was made in this manner and it must have been altered to this now very flimsy form. 70 mm x 68 mm x 7mm    Wt. 55g

 

[Gunome]

Indeed, should have a mimi and been like my Kyo Sukashi.

[Okan]

[Spartancrest]

Sebastien, that is a great match up - saved me hours of searching   

What a shame the mimi is gone on that other one - looks like they went to a lot of work to remove it but not enough to keep the mon shapes intact.

Must be a great clothing catcher now!

 

Okan, Uchikaeshi mimi  on that one. Looks Miochin/Myochin ?

[Okan]

@Spartancrest Yes, but it also looked as its been hammered after rim removal. To give a better shape, smoother edges maybe? I don’t know just thinking out loud. But you are probably right 

 

[Spartancrest]

Okan you have sparked some interest in 'altered' guards which is a great thing. I am sure there must be a lot of guards that have been 'shortened' or modified to balance new blades. They would sometimes be difficult to tell depending on how well it was done and the time, patina has probably covered up a lot of alteration evidence.

Thanks for sparking this thread.

[Spartancrest]

One more from an old thread - this is a 'modern' alteration the guard in question originally a tourist piece that encountered a grinding wheel!

[Okan]

@Spartancrest Here are some close up images..

After taking a closer look part of me says that this is a nanban tsuba.

 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

Looks like a lot of wear over a long long period. Some niku by the looks of it on the edges and some spots where it is worn away. Too difficult to tell where it was originally made - a piece worthy of further research.

 

You might like this altered example to add to the list. 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello all,

I believe this tsuba that I have has been altered.  You can see where maybe a piece of the original tsuba was “cut” off of the kozuka hitsu ana.  Most likely it was a “full wheel” type motif that may have become damaged at some point (in battle??) and was altered.

 

With respect,

Dan