Tsuba: please help to identify

[andreYes]

Please help me to identify this tsuba.

It seems to me that it could be Choshu or Bushu. Am I right?

Is it possible to distinguish these two schools, if the tsuba is unsigned?

 

And one more question concerning this tsuba. The most of nakago ana walls are filed (looks like it was adjusted for mounting recently). Is it so bad? I've read that it's "like polishing the nakago of a sword".

 

[John A Stuart]

Hi Andre, Your tsuba could be either. The reason I say this is that I know there are artists that signed both Bushu ju and Choshu ju. That and the fact that the Choshu and Bushu-Ito schools were both from Nagato (Choshu). I have tsuba attributed to both schools but, I can't determine the differentiating characteristics to make that call, they seem very similar to me. I would like to hear other's thoughts on this, though. John

[Rich T]

This design was also common amongst the later Akasaka Tadatoki's. The carving running up onto the mimi reminds me of another group but I cannot put my finger on it. I would not think this Choshû as they tended to have fine kaku mimi. I know the Ito group did this as well, but they also ventured into broad mimi, both kaku and maru. I do not actually focus much on these groups though so I am happy to be corrected.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[Mantis dude]

I remember reading once that choshu was more apt to be the same on both sides and bushu is likely to be different on either side (I think I got that right). However, not sure I have actually seen that in actual application. Can't remember where I read that, but throwing that out there. Perhaps, saying if it is the same on both sides indicates Choshu.

[docliss]

Like most of you, I find great difficulty in confidently distinguishing between the work of the Bushū and Chōshū schools. Together with the Shōami, these schools were the largest and most influential throughout the Edo period. John has pointed out the close proximity of Edo – the place of origin of the Edo Itō group – and the city of Hagi in the province of Chōshū, and both are surrounded by mountain ranges that isolate this area from the remainder of the main island. Further to the South, the Odawara Itō group were, of course, much removed from these two. This proximity, and the marked influence of the Bushū school over the Chōshū after the middle of the Edo period, combine to create this difficulty. Both schools favoured openwork designs with relief carving, and used gold inlay and overlay to highlight their products. And both favoured plants, flowers, trees and insects as their subjects.

 

On p. 187 of Tsuba: An Aesthetic Study it is stated, of the two styles of Chōshū tsuba, that ‘one is openwork tsuba with the designs being the same, or virtually the same, on either side’. This may be the origin of Ken’s observation but, like him, I have never been impressed by this supposed difference: indeed, both schools demonstrate this feature. Solid plate tsuba with relief carving of landscapes are generally of the Nakai Chōshū group, and this fact helps to sort out a small minority. The presence of ito-sukashi tends to favour a Bushū provenance, and the black patination that is characteristic of Chōshū work is also a valuable aide in distinguishing between the two schools. This latter is very difficult to identify from photographs, however, as its presence depends much upon the lighting. André’s tsuba demonstrates this difficulty – it is difficult to be certain if it is black or not.

 

With this uncertainty, I personally tend to favour a C19 Bushū provenance for this tsuba, but don’t ask me why ….

 

John L.

[andreYes]

Thank you for your comments. They give me much information to think about...

I see that it's a difficult theme Choshu-Bushu comparison.

Concerning the color of patination, John talked about. Because of lack of experience it's hard for me to tell if the patina is black or very dark brown. I've made a photo (not good quality, but the color seems to be correct) under the sun light of this tsuba side by side with a tsuba considered to be of Bushu Ito school (signed "Efu-ju Masanori"). For me, they have the same color... What do you think?

 

[docliss]

Andrey, your later photographs appear to confirm a Bushu rather than a Choshu provenance for your tsuba The black patination of the latter group really is black black and, once seen, can never be mistaken. John L.

[andreYes]

Andrey, your later photographs appear to confirm a Bushu rather than a Choshu provenance for your tsuba The black patination of the latter group really is black black and, once seen, can never be mistaken. John L.

 

Thank you, John!

I hope, some day I'll see a good Choshu tsuba in real too . I've seen them only on photos yet, but I like very much this kind of tsuba.

[Mantis dude]

John et al,

 

Following this line of thought, I held 4 tsuba together that I have. I see the black on one papered choshu tsuba. It is black.

 

I am not so sure that this is black, it seems more brown and is papered to Hagi (one of Choshu's sub groups)- my tsuba #35. It is a very light and delicate piece.

 

My tsuba 47 is brown but might have some condition issues so the color may have been affected by the life its lived. I always considered it Choshu based on the one above and some other similar guards I have seen labeled as choshu. Would you disagree?

 

My tsuba #13 which has traveled around the world to get to me was sold as Choshu- (from my tsuba page narrative), a knowledgeable collector said this was a prime Choshu example but others have said Bushu. It is brown also.

 

Wish I had a papered piece to Bushu to compare- any comments? If you want to read details on the tsuba go to my tsuba page http://www.freewebs.com/kamakiriken/tsubaupload.htm

 

Would be nice to get to the bottom of this bushu/choshu assignment debate!

Thanks.

Ken

[docliss]

Would be nice to get to the bottom of this bushu/choshu assignment debate!

 

Ken, I doubt if we will ever 'get to the bottom' of this one. My only observations about colour, simply put, are firstly that, when it comes to the consideration of plate colour, photographs are useless. And secondly that if it is black it is probably Choshu, and if it is brown it may be either Choshu or Bushu. Not a lot of help I am afraid.

 

Regards, John L.

[Mantis dude]

John,

 

Well ok we didn't solve it (I was hoping to tackle world peace after this) but the black color is a tip so some clue has emerged. Thanks.