Another help with first Japanese sword

[Levallois]

I am really new to this so please bear with me. On a whim (never a good idea), I acquired a Japanese military sword that was described as an NCO type.  It is unmarked.  Please look at the photos and tell me what you think.  I am trying to educate myself with the Japanese terms used to describe these swords and their component parts.   Please tell me what I have here.  Thank you!
 

 

[Levallois]

JMore photos

 

[Levallois]

More, more photos

[Levallois]

[WulinRuilong]

Looks like a low quality edo period katana

[Shamsy]

Not NCO. Nice to have matching numbered fittings, looks like an old blade. Definitely a Type 98 for officers though.

[PNSSHOGUN]

It appears to be older than Edo period, the short Nakago indicates Muromachi Bizen. Likely not a treasure sword, but rather a good honest sword made for fighting. 

[Levallois]

Thank you all for replying!   Sorry for the questions but did someone take this sword, that was made hundreds of years ago, to a sword maker before or around WWII and had an officer’s sword made?  Would this have been a passed down family sword or would you purchase an old sword to have this done to?

[Shugyosha]

Hi John,

Do you mean have the fittings made? The colour of the tang suggests that the blade hasn't been shortened recently but probably was in the past as one of the holes is sealed up and others added - that is more in the line of swordsmith work, having army (gunto) fittings made would be a separate thing.

 

It could have arrived in its war mounts by 3 routes: being an old family sword handed down and taken to war; it might have been purchased by a relatively well-heeled soldier who wanted something better than standard army issue or it might have been donated "for the cause". Later in the war there was a shortage of swords for those ranks required to carry one and the government requested that old blades be donated so that they could be used in the war effort.

 

A bit of bad news, from the marks on the blade it looks like someone has taken a buffer to it so it isn't in as good condition as it could have been. Please don't be tempted to clean it further or do anything beyond giving it a light oiling and don't clean up the tang - the patina there is an indication of its age and is never touched on Japanese swords. Otherwise a nice acquisition and I hope you enjoy it.

 

Welcome to the forum and to the hobby.

[Brian]

5 hours ago, Levallois said:

Thank you all for replying!   Sorry for the questions but did someone take this sword, that was made hundreds of years ago, to a sword maker before or around WWII and had an officer’s sword made?  Would this have been a passed down family sword or would you purchase an old sword to have this done to?

Both. You could purchase old blades for fair pricing, and then have it mounted to take to war. Quality varied. Or take your own sword and have it mounted.
There was various shops and military supply places that would facilitate this.

[Levallois]

Thank you for replying John and Brian.  Interesting history regarding these swords - could become an addiction - like I really need another.  Will be fun to learn more.  A couple more questions please.  No one has mentioned the scabbard so I assume it is genuine WW2 officers kit?  Does the design of the fittings mean anything in terms of where they were made?  I am missing the peg that holds the handle to the blade.  Can I replace the sticks being used now with a dowel or is there a type of peg/wood that should be used?  What kind of oil do you guys use on these swords?  Thanks again!

[Brian]

Mekugi pen is easily carved from a bamboo chopstick. Slightly tapered. They use hardened seasoned bamboo, but the take-out ones will suffice. Make sure you do that soon, it's vital.
Use thin light machine oil, and a soft tissue. Don't need a million additives, sewing machine oil etc is fine.
The scabbard and fittings are all 100% WW2, so the blade was outfitted in regular Gunto mounts.

[Bruce Pennington]

John,

Welcome to the addiction!  You can read about these at some great websites like Ohmura's site:

http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

 

Here is a good discussion of the military's effort to gather civil swords for the war:

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/family-short-blades-gunto-688110/

[JSA]

7 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

… the patina there is an indication of its age and is never touched on Japanese swords.

The patina too?! I thought it was only the blade. 🤬

 

Thanks for the lesson.

[Bruce Pennington]

16 minutes ago, JSA said:

The patina too?

"patina" on a nakago is simply oxidation.  As a blade gets older, the rust gets darker and thicker.  The dark rust isn't 'active' anymore, like fresh orange rust.  You can find older blades without such patina, but when it is there, it can be used to estimate age.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Jean,

Sorry, not touched meaning left alone- it’s fine to handle a bare tang. This is where the patina comes from; it’s generated from the oil on the hands of whoever has held it down the years. 

[Levallois]

Brian and Bruce, I appreciate the answers to my newb questions and recommendation for reference material. Also, the discussion about patina of the tang.  On another note,  I noticed from looking at the photos on these websites that my scabbard is missing the ishizuke - is it worth me trying to find one to match?

[JSA]

Ok, thanks guys. I’m taking extra care not to touch the blade with bare hands but I was manipulating the tang, so thanks for the confirmation.

[PNSSHOGUN]

9 hours ago, Levallois said:

Brian and Bruce, I appreciate the answers to my newb questions and recommendation for reference material. Also, the discussion about patina of the tang.  On another note,  I noticed from looking at the photos on these websites that my scabbard is missing the ishizuke - is it worth me trying to find one to match?

Yes, although it may prove difficult to get one that is a correct match in size and patina. I would carefully measure and photograph it first, then check around on the forum.

[dwmc]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:52 AM, Levallois said:

Brian and Bruce, I appreciate the answers to my newb questions and recommendation for reference material. Also, the discussion about patina of the tang.  On another note,  I noticed from looking at the photos on these websites that my scabbard is missing the ishizuke - is it worth me trying to find one to match?

 

There are a couple of ishizuki available on the ebay site ( 4520genkidayo ) at the present time. However, as PNSSHOGUN (John) mentioned, Shin Gunto fittings are difficult to match in exact size as they are made for each individual saya. Best bet is to attend one of Japanese sword shows in the the US and fit ishizuki in hand for as close as possible fitting...

 

Dave