what does the description sugest?

[shan]

Second and final question is this .

O suriage short blade 40cm Nagasa with 2 mekugi ana and a hi both sides.

Narrow motohaba of 25mm blade with Gunome/inverted gunome and Jizo Boshi,Itame with masame hada in the Ji.

What does this sugest to the forum?

I was thinking Sue seki?

Could it be a lot older and was once a katana/Tachi?

many thanks if you do respond.

shan

 

 

 

 

 

[John A Stuart]

Well, Shan, you kind of answered your own question. Mino-den. However it looks to have never been tachi length and may not have even reached the length to be a katana, 40cm now and maybe originally 50 - 54cm. I am not sure it isn't shinto. That is what it suggests to me. John

[Mark Green]

Hi Shan,

I don't think it was ever a Tachi. The Hamachi looks to have been moved up some, and it is Suriage, but I feel it was always a stout Wakizashi. The Hamachi looks like it was in line where the Nakago turns a bit. I think that low ana was likely the orig.

It does look old. I like it!!!

Great looking Hataraki in the hamon!!!

Mark G

[shan]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the opinion,i will post again when its polished.

Remember the important info is: that it is only 25mm at its (very) widest point at the hamachi/munemachi (motohaba)

This i think makes it a very slim blade compared to other wakizashi i have and although its sugata is quite "bold" when not up against a "normal" waki,it is in fact very very slender when side by side.

regards

shan

[Markus]

Hi folks,

 

Maybe it´s just too late her in central Europe (just returned from the pub ) but the weakly cut bôhi,

the uniform hamon, the hardly existing yokote (if there was once a yokote which got just worn, the areas

before and after the place where it was wouldn´t look that uniform), and the two huge identically sized

mekugi-ana let ring my warning bell!

However, let´s wait for the polishing.

[shan]

I am adding these images for a size comparison with an unpolished 52cm sanbonsugi blade of shinto origin and also with a Takada saneyuki blade of 54cm from approx 1790 at the very bottom.

This should help people to see the narrow aspects of the blade with Bo Hi.

There is evidence just above the first mekugi ana of at least Machiokuri on one side of the nakago but it does not translate in the images.

 

Hi Markus,the Beer must be Extremely good in central europe as thats a somewhat cryptic statement that you have added there.

Not sure what the sugestion is, but thanks for the input.

There is no guarantee of a polish until i know if it is worth the cost.

The hamon is quite neat, is that then a bad thing?

 

Here are the size comparisons

 

 

 

[Markus]

Hi Markus,the Beer must be Extremely good in central europe as thats a somewhat cryptic statement that you have added there.

Not sure what the sugestion is, but thanks for the input.

 

Hi Shan. Don´t worry, probably I saw too much Chinese fakes recently, that´s why I am seeing things...

[John A Stuart]

I believe Markus is referring to how amateurish the hi seems to terminate at both ends. There is something soft about this whole sword and I agree that bells should be ringing. I am sure something isn't right here. John

[Mark Green]

I don't know for sure, But my guess would still have it as a very old, polished down, and well used WAkizashi. Looks a bit tired from the pics .

I have seen a few Waks from the old Koto days that thin. Not many long swords though.

Mark G

[shan]

all fair statements and further enhance what i already half believed.

I am 99.9% sure it is a genuine Blade,but it may well be of little importance and as i have many to polish i will place this one on the "backburner" for a while.

My thanks for your input Gentlemen.

Very much appreciated.

shan

[b.hennick]

Perhaps you should ask the polisher to open a window. Based on what you see you can decide to have the whole blade polished or not. Window is is a polished area of about 4 inches. It is reasonably quickly done and shows hamon and hada well.

[reinhard]

Shan, Markus' remarks are by no means cryptic. They are just polite and he's perfectly right in pointing out the poorly cut bo-hi and other suspicious features. - The comparison of blades you are presenting is no help at all. It's just one blade's sugata compared to others (confirmed in any way?). - No matter what the honey-dipper says: There are no "great looking hataraki" visible in your pics, it's just poor condition of the blade. The blade looks like any 20th century Seki-style blade by now. Garlic again.

 

reinhard

[Guest nickn]

20th century???

no its looks like a mino shinto wakizashi that has had the hi added later and the mekugi ana enlarged

i dont thinks the sword is worth a polish

[reinhard]

Nick, you may be right, but I have seen several Seki-style blades just like this one, made during early Showa period and mounted for ShinGunTo later. Not only its ugly bo-hi and oversized mekugi-ana give this blade a doubtful appearance. "Fat" sugata and careless yasurime are also pointing towards a newer date of manufacture. Even a badly deformed ShinTo blade keeps at least some of its features, but I can't see any of them here. - All in all, it looks more like a Chinese fake than a ShowaTo, but who knows by now?

 

reinhard

[Joseph P.]

I have to agree with reinhard on certain points. While I have more confidence that this blade really is old, there are things on it that make it look "strange".

 

The nakago looks a little weird to me. It seems a little "unfinished".

To me, every time I see a hi that looks like that, I think "showato". The nakago rust tells me otherwise. I believe the nakago may have been hastily finished if suriage.

The hamon just doesn't look right to me either.

 

Perhaps it was modified for War? May I ask how you obtained the balde?

 

With these things in mind, however, I still believe it is just an old (Pre-Showa) blade in need of some TLC and good polishing.

 

Boy, I am editing this a lot! :D This is quite embarrassing!

[shan]

Hi all

I can see that this blade has elicited some differing responses and opinions.

The Mekugi ana are exactly the same size as almost all of my blades and appear approx the "standard" size for a Mekugi ana.

The hamon is very precise I agree but I believe still genuine and shows No Mizukage.

The nakago shows signs of at least one previous machiokuri above the first Ana and I believe the blade to be O-suriage.

I agree that the hi is not of a particular skilled finish and the nakago was a hasty job but we do not know the reasons why this is the case or when it was done and do not know that this was not a broken blade of some importance once or even a Satsuma rebellion reworking.

The blade is very slender and as stated has a 25mm motohaba.(polished many many times i would guess)

 

I also understand that the addition of this Hi was sometimes to rebalance a blade that had lost its balance because of suriage or to cover Flaws in the steel.

 

The Blade came with a Black saya of fairly good quality with Kozuka and Kogai slots and a Silver Fuchi, 2 silver foil seppa, Silver double Habaki (Custom fitted to take into account the Hi shape) and a solid silver Tsuba.Everything fits very neatly to the nakago and Blade.

 

I believe someone thought this a family blade worthy of preservation and this is the reason for its continued existence and its reasonably valuable Edo period mounts.

The Tsuka was unwrapped with no menuki but had an Ebony Kashira added much later that matched the saya.

This may also be a tourist piece of course but I would put money on the blade being genuine and at the very latest Shinto.

I would love to know what is ringing these alarm bells for most of you.

[Guest nickn]

from the photos i am sure its a low quality shinto mino den o suriage blade if it came in nice mounts perhaps it was mounted for a merchant where the quality of the blade did not matter as it just held the fittings together?