shinsakuto and old swords

[jezah81]

Hi Guys,

 

Something I always hear about and have read about got me thinking. Do shinsakuto blunt faster than the older swords such as the shinto and shinshinto blades? Also, when a nihonto gets blunt is the only way to get it sharp again by sending it to a polisher and get it repolished again or is there a more simple way such as a sharpening stone that anyone can use to sharpen the blade?

 

Kind Regards,

 

Jeremy Hagop

[Rich T]

but I would think that 99% of the members here would never use a sword they had polished for anything other than study. These are, to Nihonto enthusiusts, antiques and as such, for preservation, not martial arts.

 

Without wanting to come off as rude, maybe the Bugei Forum or Sword Forum International would be a better place to ask this type of question.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[John A Stuart]

Hi Jeremy, I have not heard that about shinsakuto being less able to keep an edge. It would depend on the skill each particular sword was forged with, regardless of period. Hence wazamono ratings. Only a proper togishi can polish and thereby sharpen a sword. Although I have seen movies where polishing was done in the traditional manner by samurai previous to action. Some may have had this skill but probably a movie fantasy for the most part. Each clan had their smiths so it would hardly be necessary to sharpen ones own sword. John

[DanBaker]

Hi,

 

I'd be very hesitant to hit your sword with a sharpening stone.... you could end up doing some damage. I would leave it to someone trained in nihonto polishing. the last thing you want to do is wreck your nihonto

[Bungo]

  John A Stuart said:

Only a proper togishi can polish and thereby sharpen a sword. Although I have seen movies where polishing was done in the traditional manner by samurai previous to action. Some may have had this skill but probably a movie fantasy for the most part. Each clan had their smiths so it would hardly be necessary to sharpen ones own sword. John

 

When looking at those old edo period woodblock print books on military subject, very often you see pictures of armored samurai, ashigaru doing their own " sharpening " of swords. Logistically it didn't make sense to have the togishi do the polish when hundreds needed the service asap at about the same time. Remember the swords were treated as tools, not art objects before the battle.

 

milt THE ronin

[kusunokimasahige]

During samurai times sharpening of personal swords was often done by the samurai themselves, even some sword-smiths were togishi on the side.

 

Also often after battles which were won, the sword would be sent back to either the smith, for retempering / repair, or the togishi for repolishing.

 

It was less expensive than a proper polish/sharpening these days...

 

as we do not use these swords as weapons anymore, the nessecity of practice with them has subsided considerably, therefore the Bugei and other companies bring swords on the market called "practical" katanas... however if you would test and compare such a sword with a proper Nihonto you would be very disappointed with the present day strength/sharpness... no matter what steel is used, how many times it was hammered/quenched etcetera...

 

Its just not the same.

 

if i would use a nihonto for iai practice or even tameshi giri i would be very careful since it is an antique.

Also in my opinion there are too many people who buy a sword, and dont care properly for it. and i dont mean technical care........

 

I also very much mean spiritual care. A Nihon-to should be honoured.

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

Hi Milt, KM, "ashigaru doing their own " sharpening " of swords" Milt I agree that battlefield dressing may be done but do you think it was just repairs in the interim until properly done? Smiths attached to a daimyo would be head of a whole group of people and could surely repair (polish) swords during lull periods, no? Of course there would be competant togishi and apprentices on the field as well.

"therefore the Bugei and other companies bring swords on the market called "practical" katanas... however if you would test and compare such a sword with a proper Nihonto you would be very disappointed with the present day strength/sharpness... no matter what steel is used, how many times it was hammered/quenched etcetera... "

KM, I wouldn't include these as shinsakuto. There are some modern day smiths who produce swords comparable to swords produced throughout history and in fact with modern homogenous steels, lamination techniques and quenching techniques that in respect to durability and sharpness may even surpass the old techniques. These are not nihonto so, 'nuff said. John

[kusunokimasahige]

was a bit difficult to read through it but i get your point..

 

i dont see them as shinsakuto either... to me only a gendaito made by a Japanese smith using ancient techniques is one.

 

they might surpass older swords, but have nothing to do with proper Nihon-to..

 

 

KM

[Bungo]

john et al,

 

I am sure the daimyo and such had the polisher do their works, but.......... during battles while the situation is " fluid ", I doubt they did a " proper " polishing job ( even Big Mo can't polish a katana in one day ).

Most likely, they just take out the chips, sharpen it and that's about it. At that moment I am sure they treat the swords as weapons and not objects of art.

Also, I am not a sword guy but I think the " polish " as we know it today didn't get started till late Edo period ?

 

 

milt THE ronin

[John A Stuart]

Hi Milt, Yes, That is what I understand as well, the original polish then was left in the white. That is what I meant, that in battle or following one where the situation is still fluid the repairs would have been bandaids until a proper smith could repair them. No argument there. John