My Japanese Sword and it's a Gunto

[Erick_151]

First Post. Hello everyone! My work has me living in Okinawa since last year and I finally got around to visiting a Nihonto dealer.  I was really drawn to the Gunto and made a purchase without much research. Figured when in Japan,... hehehe.

 

The dealer told me it's an ancestral blade judged as being made in the bakumatsu period and carried into battle. The dealer did not know the owner or maker.  He said it's a family heirloom that was sold. License is from the Fukushima prefecture with a registration date of July 14th 1947.

 

So as I am a total newbie to Nihonto and Gunto, I thought I'd post the pics and see where if I made a mistake or did good. Thanks in advance for your hospitality.

 

-Erick 

[Erick_151]

[Erick_151]

[francois2605]

Hello Erick and welcome to the board and this hobby 

 

Have you already removed the tsuka (handle) ? It would be helpful to see pictures of the nakago (tang) and if there is a mei (signature).

 

At first glance, the hamon looks very nice. I also like the habaki with the 2 different metals (that's a good sign IMO).

 

The tsuba is unusual for a shin-gunto, maybe that is a civil variant ? Others will be able to tell.

 

If you remove the tsuka, you may find matching numbers on the tsuba, seppa (washers) and tang.

 

The color of the sarute tells me it's not original to the koshirae.

 

Edit: Bruce Pennington maintains a very useful reference document Stamps of the Japanese Sword listing the different types of stamps one can find on military swords.

[SteveM]

According to the registration card, there is no signature on the blade (mumei). It was registered in Shōwa 47, which is 1972.

 

Considering the registration date, I'd guess there are no stamps or arsenal marks on the blade. (If there are, the sword shop guy would have some explaining to do). 

 

As Francois says above, it would be helpful to see the nakago (tang, or the butt-end of the sword). If you are unsure how to take the handle off, there should be a few instructions here on this site.

[Stephen]

Nice find for the Rock. Steve beat me to the rest of what i was going to ask. 

[Erick_151]

Thanks for the welcome. Not sure what the sarute is, but I took it apart and here's the pics. I noted all the seppa and the bottom of the Tsuba have 1 and 2s on them, the fuchi only has a 1, and the locking lever only has a 1. There are no other marks I could find. The blade is mumei. My bad in the date. Doh.

[Erick_151]

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks for the added pics Eric!  I cannot speak to the age of your blade, other guys will have to opine on that.

 

The tsuba is only the 2nd one I've seen of this style.  It could be that both yours and the other one I've seen

are simply from a shop that made this style tsuba and used them when fitting a personal civil blade in military mounts.  It also could be a 4th variant of the tsuba specifically made for the Gunzoku - the civilian branch of the military.  If you don't know about them, just google the term.  But they wore distinct military-looking uniforms and performed many functions for the active military.  They had their own rank nomenclature that had equivalencies to military rank in it levels of hierarchy.  I'm adding the three known variants of their tsuba for comparison.  Quite a nice gunto you have there!

[David Flynn]

Quick guess:  Shinshinto - early Gendai.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The Tsuba has been modified post war IMO.

[robinalexander]

A clearer shot of my Tsuba shown in Bruce's first picture above....for comparison.

 

 

 

[David Flynn]

The Tsuba, looks like a Chinese repro.

[Erick_151]

1 hour ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

The Tsuba has been modified post war IMO.

It's strange my tsuba has a hole for the utility knife, but the sheath does not. Not sure why this would have been done. Do other gunto have a hole for the utility knife?

[David Flynn]

The hole in the Saya, is for a retention clip.  The Tsuba doesn't go with this sword.

[Erick_151]

[Erick_151]

3 hours ago, robinalexander said:

A clearer shot of my Tsuba shown in Bruce's first picture above....for comparison.

 

 

 

Hey Robin! Does your tsuba have the 1 and 2 stamps as well? Yours does not have the hole for the locking mechanism. Would the Army weapons master be punching these holes at that time? Does anyone know what the circle indents would be for?

 

David, thanks for your opinion. Wondering why the Chinese would reproduce a little known gunto tsuba though,... I will say the underside of the tsuba is smooth feeling around the blade hole. Not sure if that means anything.

[robinalexander]

3 hours ago, David Flynn said:

The Tsuba, looks like a Chinese repro.

Hello David, who's Tsuba are you referring to? Mine (which is shown immeadiatley above your comment), or Erik's?

 

Not disputing, just clarifying.

Rob

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

That Tsuba was originally made for a leather retention strap that goes through the Tsuba and attaches to the Saya. Now there are certainly original cases where an older Tsuba is re-fitted to use the small locking catch.

 

Anyway, not to take away from the sword which is certainly very nice and the main attraction of the piece as a whole. The point is to make sure a Gunto comes with all original mounts if possible. 

 

[David Flynn]

the Tsuba directly above my post and under yours.

[robinalexander]

Hi Erik, 

 

No my tsuba does not have any stamps or numbers.

 

Like yours, mine has an oval hole which accommodates a leather retention strap. Typically due to age and use, many tend to break or rot and are missing.. Mine is gone. Interestingly, my copper fuchi (small band on end of tsuka (handle) and the rim of the tsuba are are distinctly shiny (absence of patina) in the precise position the, previously attached, leather retaining clip would have been located.  But I digress.

The holes in the tsuba both for the blade and the retention clip (chuso) would be made when the blade was mounted. All operationally matching. Mine never had a chuso clip attached to the tsuka nor was my saya ever designed to accommodate a locking clip. Therefore one oval hole.

 

The small punch marks you see are to my knowledge, put there by fitters in order to minutely decrease the size of the hole (nakago-ana) so that the tsuba fits snuggly over the blade. There are lots if 'tsuba guys' on NMB far more knowledgeable than me.  Try a couple of key word searches on NMB.  I have no idea about authenticity or otherwise of your tsuba (or mine for that matter )

 

Keep asking questions

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robinalexander]

Thanks David....I have a tendancy to agree although the cheap presentation in that shot probably dosnt help.  Might have to run it past the tsuba guys.  Its confusing why there is so much (old?) wear or shine, on the 'corners' if the tsuba and also fuchi that are directly above, and in line with, the hole (???? ana ) for the retention strap.

 

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

There are some Chinese fakes with civil tsuba, but I'm not leaning that direction with these.  None of them are on faked swords and they all have appropriate age.  If they were on fake swords I'd lean that way, but these aren't.  As to the quality, while we'd like to think the perfectionist culture of Japanese sword manufacture was unfailing, it's just not the case.  There are many sword fittings with lower quality work to be found.

[robinalexander]

Ahhhh Bruce. I like the way you think.

[Erick_151]

Thank you much to everyone. Very interesting first experience with investigating and learning about swords.  First time a field striped a a sword too; lol.

I am a veteran and still work with the military, so I was very attracted to a gunto for my first sword, but I pulled the trigger so quickly because I was first and foremost attracted to the blade.  Anyone have any info on how to get it checked out by a professional?  Does anyone think it be worth sending the blade to get NBTHK evaluated?  Thanks!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Erick, as you are already in Japan it simplifies things greatly and the cost is much lower, Paul Martin would be a good person to contact about sending in a sword for Shinsa.

 

[Erick_151]

Just saw a Gunto pop up on Aoi Art. It's already got the NBTHK Honzon Certificate so if anyone is looking: https://sword-auction.com/en/product/11057/as09126-刀：神左（保存刀剣）/