help with identifying smith

[MikeNT]

Hi, I have just bought this blade from Aoi Art (don't have it yet). They identified the blade as being a Kanesaki from Inaba in the Kanbun era with mei Kanesaki Saku. I have checked Markus Sesko"s Index of Japanese Swordsmiths and only 2 smiths listed have the mei us just Kanesaki Saku listed, one from the Tensho era (p160) and one from the Tenbun era (p161). I could not see one with that mei from Kanbun era. The smith from the Tenbun era is listed as an Inaba smith. 

Any help with attribution to the correct  smith would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks, Mike

 

Aoi description

 

Signature:　Kanesaki Saku
兼先作(新刀)

Shinto: Cyujyo saku:Inaba.
(We divide 4 sections for each sword as Saijyo saku, Jyo-jyo saku, Jyo saku, and regular saku)
This sword belongs to Jyo Jyo saku ranking.
The blade was polished.
Habaki:　Gold foiled single habaki.
Blade length:　65.1cm or 25.6 inches.
Sori:1.5 cm or 0.59inches.
Mekugi: 1
Width at the hamachi: 3.16cm or 1.24inches.

Width at the Kissaki: 1.5 cm or 0.59inches.
Kasane: 0.73 cm or 0.28inches.
The weight of the sword: 725 grams.
Era: Edo period Kanbun era
Shape: Wide and thick sword with deep Sori and longer Kissaki.
Jigane: Ko-Itame-Hada well grained. Jinie attached beautiful Jihada. There are Utsuri around Habamoto.
Hamon: Ko-Niedeki Deki. From Habaki, Suguha then Choji-Midare and Funome- Midare mixed.

Special Feature: The sword has Mei as Kanesaki and from the style, we think this is Ianaba school’s Kanesaki.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by MikeNT
clarification of question

[WulinRuilong]

43 minutes ago, MikeNT said:

They identified the blade as being a Kanesaki from Inaba in the Kanbun era with mei Kanesaki Saku. I have checked Markus Sesko"s Index of Japanese Swordsmiths and only 2 smiths listed have Kanesaki Saku listed, one from the Tensho era (p160) and one from the Tenbun era (p161).

The Ianaba school Kanesaki's history began in the beginning of Edo period and continued until the Meiji Restoration. Obviously, Markus Sesko"s Index must have missed a lot of names.

[MikeNT]

Thank you for replying, it is much appreciated. I am going to show my deep ignorance and ask a question or two if I may.

I could find no information online about the Ianaba school, is this an alternative spelling to Inaba?

Mike

[Bugyotsuji]

Inaba Kanesaki. (Aoi’s English editing is never perfect.)

Yes, I can see nine of them.

 

The third generation has Kanbun swords.

Details here from the Nihontō Meikan.

 

 

[MikeNT]

Hi Bugyotsuji,

Thanks for the reply,  I did not mean that there were no Kanesaki's listed in Inaba for the Kanbun period, just none listed as using the specific mei Kanesaki Saku. WulinRuilong above you has already replied that the index must have a lot of names missing.

The sword index list has a Kanesaki from Inaba in the Tenbun era who used this mei along with Kaneyoshi yori godai Kanesaki sandai saku and Inshu-ju Fujiwara Kanesaki

Would this smith not be seen as Inaba school?

Not really doubting the attribution by Aoi, just hoping to learn something and maybe find something more specific regarding the smith.

 

Mike

[Bugyotsuji]

Mike, Aoi said above “we think”…

 

The only Kanbun Kanesaki listed in the Meikan is No.3 out of nine smiths, the one I have posted for you above. If you want to know who your smith is, there is a 95+% chance that Aoi Art have seen and chosen the same entry.

[MikeNT]

Thank you for your replies, they are truly appreciated. I can see the smith you are referring to in Markus Sesko's list, (sorry I don't read Japanese yet so the index in English is helpful)

I understand that certainty is difficult with these blades and mean no bad reflection on Aoi, I am happy with my purchase as it is and as described. I was just trying to clear up an issue I noticed when looking for the mei in the index as the index does not list this mei for the Kanbun era smith.

I do not have adequate knowledge to know when the reference material may be incomplete or how strict the interpretation is.

Thanks again, Mike

[almeister]

Hello Aussie Mike

Unless I missed something 

There is no shinsa certificate with sword - the bottom 2 lines from aoi are a suggestion  ?

I Have purchased from aoi , all certified swords are advertised as such 

You've already purchased  ? Otherwise ask in regards 

Cheers AlanK

[MikeNT]

Hi Alan, there is a certificate I just did not post it, will correct that now.

Mike

[Bugyotsuji]

Mike, if you don’t mind waiting I am sure someone will translate that entry into English for you. (If no-one steps forward I’ll give you the gist when I get a moment.)

[MikeNT]

Thank you in anticipation Piers or anyone else who can help.

Mike

[Shugyosha]

Hi Mike, 

 

Kanesaki saku (shinto). So less specific than a particular era. 

[sabiji]

Kanesaki saku - Shinto. Well, the NBTHK makes it quite easy for itself. Not because they do not deal with a particular generation, but because there were also the neighboring Mimasaka Kanesaki.

And unfortunately, they also worked quite similarly. The Inaba and the Mimasaka Kanesaki show Bizen borrowings. In the case of Inaba, it is quite certain that the Shinto shodai coming from Mino also worked in Bizen. To what extent the Inabas and the Mimasakas are even originally related to each other is beyond my knowledge.
The Inaba-Kanesaki often make the Kurijiri Ha-sided steeper, so that the Kurijiri looks more like Mimasaka. But I don't put my hand in the fire for that.

 

[Geraint]

Dear Mike.

 

Nice sword, thanks for sharing.  Over the years I have kept an eye out for this school as I have a late generation katana.  My notes contain the following, though I cannot tell you where I got the information from.

 

"The first generation Inshu Kanesaki was a swordsmith in
Yamato province. The second generation moved to Seki and
learned under Kanemoto. The third moved to Bizen
province and served the Ikeda family at the domain of
Okayama. Following the master, the fifth moved to Inshu
province in 1632. The Kanesaki clan prospered there as a
retained swordsmith for generations."

 

That pretty much echoes what Thomas has said.

 

All  the best.

[MikeNT]

Thanks a lot guys, starting to feel a bit like Sisyphus, looking at the mountain of knowledge yet to be learned. Not that that's a bad thing.

Mike

[Geraint]

Mike, if you search for "Inshu Kanesaki" you will get more results.  Inaba being the province in which they worked and by the Shinto period schools are more diverse so province names are less sure as a guide.

Found this one, http://www.users.on.net/~coxm/?page=oshigata_sword_s2

 

Plenty more to see but not a great deal more information as yet.

 

Keep up the good work, this mountain has plenty of false summits but the climb is fascinating!

 

All the best.

[FZ1]

8 hours ago, MikeNT said:

[...] starting to feel a bit like Sisyphus, looking at the mountain of knowledge yet to be learned. Not that that's a bad thing.

 

I'm also new to all this, Mike (I've been at it for about a year) and I'm still tripping-over molehills; I'm not even close to the mountain yet!  

 

Reading the wide range of daily posts on the NMB, while also reading loads of books and doing some targeted research, keeps me moving forward and (hopefully) learning.

 

I've also found that it pays to become comfortable with a lack of "absolutes".  Sometimes there just isn't enough information available for one definite answer, only a range of possibilities.   I read somewhere (possibly in one of Darcy's blog posts?) that Japanese people tend to be much more comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty than people from many other cultures.  I'm slowly learning to take this approach and not get frustrated that I may not get "the" answer that I'm looking for.

 

That's my rookie 2d worth anyway. As Geraint says, the climb is indeed fascinating, so stick with it. 

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

[Bugyotsuji]

The Meikan is written in a kind of clipped code, giving the absolute minimum of information for each recorded smith.

For example the entry for the smith that Aoi Art suggested gives the following:

 

1. Examples of known signature styles. (Bracketed)

2. Early name, other names used.

3. Rough date.

4. Region

5. Sources, works of reference where mentioned.

6. Actual sword dates noted

 

With the advice from other members above in mind, see the the translation and ponder.

 

‘Kanesaki’, ‘Inshū Jū Kanesaki’, ‘Inshū Tottori Jū Kanesaki’, ‘Inshū Fujiwara Kanesaki’, early name ‘Kanetsugu’. (Birth name) Hyōuemon. Kanbun. Inaba. (Bikō, Kaishi, Tōken, Sōran) 

Dates cut: Kanbun 5 and 8. Enpō 6.

 

(Add water and watch your seed grow…)