WW2 Japanese NCO sword numbers

[Swords]

I hav a question regarding my Japanese Nco sword I bought this years ago and was told it’s early because its lower # 10920 Dose this add value and any one know the  year was it made?

It also has cosmoline but from what I can see 

it looks mint  I’m thinking of removing  it but am afraid it would ruin It

 

[Bruce Pennington]

@Swords

Steve,

Does your fuchi have 3 or 4 stamps?  I had a Nagoya 95, #10506, that had a 4th stamp.

 

The coppers were produced for about 1 year beginning in fiscal year 1937 (so April, 1937).  So that puts the first year of aluminum handles in 1938.  I don't have production numbers for the early years, maybe @Stegel or @Shamsy can say, but yours was likely made early 1939.  Those guys will correct me on that, I'm sure.

 

"Value" - that always depends on each particular collector.  To me, it makes them more attractive.  Yours is in amazing condition!

 

I would certainly remove the cosmoline, personally.  If you do a search of NMB, "remove cosmoline" you'll get plenty of pages describing how to do it.  You won't hurt the blade.

[Shamsy]

Go ahead and remove the cosmoline. It's just a preservative, it doesn't affect the sword value or originality. 

 

You have a nice early variation from Gifu there. You can tell from the slightly offset tsuka-ito pattern on the cast handle. Gifu only did this on their earliest swords and not for very long, so hard to find these.  Fabulous condition, just how I like it. A little patina and wear from age, but close to mint. Is the knot a reproduction though? Leather that is over seventy years old like that looks too good to be true.

 

While a variation to the norm, I'm afraid that unless you get a die-hard collector like me hooked, small differences mean almost nothing to the average 95 buyer. Being earlier means nothing to collectors either. We are after variations and don't really care when it was made. I doubt that it would make any difference to non-collectors buying either. The only 95 swords where early production matters are the coppers (Pattern 1) because the closer you get to the magical '1' the closer you are to having the first sword made in this model. There are also a number of variations in saya for earlier coppers, but I digress.

 

Given the condition, the brass tsuba (more desirable for some reason) and the ever soaring prices, you should get good money if you were to sell it.

[Swords]

It’s good to hear positive feedback of you 2 guys so thanks for that I bought this sword from a guy years ago for 1000 sold it for 1300 but wish I hadn’t so I bought it back 

Anyway interesting info the blade looks mint minus the cosmoline early 1939 sounds good As quoted slightly offset tsuka-ito pattern on the cast handle.Gifu only did this on their earliest swords and not for verylong, so hard to find these.  Not sure what that means is it the pebbles on the Tsuba I thought they all looked the same but I don’t hav anything to compare it to also what’s  slightly offset mean And Any idea of value?

 

thanks guys 

[Swords]

Sorry it had 3 stamped and reproduction tassel 

[Shamsy]

You can read up about the tsuka-ito patterns in this thread 

On the first page, Bruce posts an example of his Gifu with pictures of the tsuka. You can see from those what I'm referring to.

 

As to value, whatever someone will pay. I wouldn't pay current prices because I'm a dinosaur, but the value just goes steadily up, so I don't think the prices are bad. I'd expect, based on eBay's trends, $1200USD to $2,000USD?

 

[Swords]

A lot of information to chew on but great info Nice to hear how nice the blade is probably mint under the cosmoline 

one question hav was I always thought having most of the paint on handle was very important except of course the blade too But it’s nice to hav a mint blade early 

model nco I will consider offers if anyone is interested 

3 hours ago, Shamsy said:

slightly offset tsuka-ito pattern on the cast handle. Gifu only did this on their earliest swords and not for very long, so hard to find these. 

Hi can you be more specific regarding your comment above 

 

thanks Steve 

[Shamsy]

Have a look at my above post. If that's not clear, I'll provide a summary. 

 

Paint on handles is reasonably important, but no more so than the condition of any other part of the sword. A sword with perfect paint and a rusty blade is no good, likewise a sword with an outstanding blade and ruined handle and scabbard is no good. 

[Swords]

Good to know I guess finding the perfect sword is hard to find and probably a lot more money but after reading the thread I’m happy with it I don’t think I could replace it especially having low serial numbers 

Thanks guys for your help! I wanted to add a few more pictures hopefully u can see the Tsuba 

[Swords]

Here’s better pictures of the sword markings and Tsuba maybe u can get more on it

 

Thanks steve

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice Steve!  The Gifu stamp on the left side is thought to be the early logo of the Seki Shoten Co.  Last observed serial number with the Gifu is 80247, while the earliest observed Seki Shoten number is 82009 (thanks to Thomas - @Kiipu)

Seki Shoten

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:57 AM, Swords said:

 # 10920 Dose this add value and any one know the  year was it made?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your sword seems to made around July 1939.
I agree with Steve, that tassel is a repro.

[Swords]

Bruce That’s good info thanks 
If my math is right shouldn’t the serial # on mine 10920 earlier then the numbers you provided 

[Kiipu]

I think Gifu 岐 started at serial number 10,001 and the lowest observed is serial 名10136.  Thus your sword could be the 920th one made by Gifu.  As already indicated by Shamsy, the hilt pattern is asymmetrical.  When time permits, can you post a picture of the scabbard mouth showing the serial number?

@Stegel

 

I think Bruce is referring to the thread below in regards to the name of the maker.

Original Japanese Type 95 Gunto NCO Sword?

[paul griff]

Hello,

         As Bruce points out ,tassel is a reproduction and saya looks to be have been repainted but still a very nice sword..

Regards,

             Paul.

[Swords]

Thanks for clearing that up regarding the serial # Kiipu 

No the scabbard wasn’t repainted it’s original but the tassels a reproduction 

[Stegel]

Nice sword Steve, and thanks for sharing it here.

The guy's here have given you a fairly good guess on the date of manufacture, which i agree with also.

There are only a handful of these recorded in this number range of which even fewer have a fourth stamp.

The stamp is 'ko' and i only know of two examples that have it stamped on the fuchi, so yes it is rare.

I would like to see the scabbard throat with the serial numbers, you may find the extra stamp there.

I have a mint example of the 'Gifu' (Seki) sword in this range with the stamp on the scabbard throat.

It is the only one i have seen and yours could possibly be the second!

 

 

[Swords]

Thanks for your help Sorry I didn’t get back sooner been busy but it great news to know To hav a nice rare sword I will get some pictures of the scabbard throat hopefully with extra stamped 

[Swords]

Ok I took pictures of the fuchi and the scabbard throat I cant tell if it is a marking or not Not as clear as yours Maybe you can see something I can’t 

 

 

[Stegel]

Thanks for the extra photos, however the area we are interested in is the top half of the throat. The’Na’ stamp precedes the serial number as would be expected. Your scabbard has more paint on it, so it is partially obscured.

could you show the whole scabbard throat, and maybe also a photo of the back of the collar(fuchi) as there may be a stamp there also

[Swords]

Very hard to see inside the throat I took the best I could maybe I can see something The blade is easy 

also back of fuchi nothing does that mean not as rare anymore?

[Swords]

Best I can do with 

[Stegel]

Thanks for the pics, much better!

I don’t see any sign of another stamp,

this is not uncommon though, as you would expect only random samples to be inspected instead of the whole production run for quality control.
Still, you have a very nice sword!

 

The sword is part of the very first production by Gifu(Seki) for the Nagoya Arsenal and as such it is reasonably rare in itself. Only some 1200 to 1500 were made in this run, and very few are recorded.

[Swords]

Sorry I can’t find any new  marks Do you know would go to sell and what price range 

I’m assuming it’s a smaller  group of people that would be interested because of its uniqueness 

 

[Swords]

On 4/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, Kiipu said:

hilt pattern is asymmetrical. 

I’m not familiar with this expression can you elaborate

 

 

[Stegel]

The price range given before is fairly accurate given today’s prices on eBay.

The fact that it is fairly minty is a strong selling point for you. 
Symmetrical means both sides of the handle are the same as far as the imitation wrapping is concerned.

Asymmetrical means that the wrap differs from one side to the other.

In this case the wrap was moved to make way for the mounting screw. 

[Kiipu]

Steve, below is a link to a short introduction to the Type 95 Military Sword.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info

[Swords]

I appreciate all help addressing information regarding this sword 

[Swords]

I probably should started another thread but based one new information I am looking to sell my NCO sword if anyone is interested 

 

 

steve

[Swords]

Hi guys I decided to use mineral spirits as requested to get the cosmoline off 

Turned out amazing wow like brand new!

Im spoiled now