Swords that were used by samurai and ones used by merchants

[Paz]

Hi all , I have a question for some of you experts. 

 

During the Edo period only samurai were allowed to carry blades longer than 60cm I beleive as they were classed as katana (long swords ). 

 

However I understand that other classes such as merchants were permitted to carry wakizashi or blades less than katana length. 

 

How can you tell if a particular short sword was used by samurai or non samurai ? 

 

I'm thinking that a signature or mei on a blade from a Smith could tell us. For example only a samurai would carry a signed blade for example? 

 

Thanks 

[paulb]

The honest answer is you cant tell. But it is also important to remember where the wealth was during the Edo period. Merchants were able to afford better blades and far better koshirae than impoverished samurai. They also had a more flamboyant taste. Many of the finest wakizashi seen in beautiful mounts were made for merchants.

At the top end Senior retainers would have blades and fittings made by the best smiths.

lower ranking samurai would have what they could afford.

Merchants would buy what they liked and what demonstrated their wealth and sophistication.

The reason that many modern collectors look down on wakizashi is they cannot be sure they were carried by samurai and for some this lessens their historical value. It has also been suggested in the past that Smiths put less effort in to making wakizashi for non samurai. I think this is demonstrably incorrect. Why would a smith risk their repuion and alienate their most lucrative customer base by making a substandard piece? 

[Geraint]

Ah, Paz, if only things were that simple!  I see Paul had beaten me to it and covered the ground.    Many collectors are confident in announcing that a given wkizashi must have been a merchant's sword but if you look at some of the outstanding daisho koshirae, which by definition must have been owned by samurai, you can see some very spectacular mounts.  

 

All the best.

[Paz]

Thanks @paulband @Geraint

 

Some food for thought to be fair. So smiths made swords indiscriminately for whoever paid the price. 

So am I right in saying that it is far more likely that a higher ranking smith, from a reputable school was likely confined only to the samurai class. While lesser smiths made blades for everyone.

 

It's a shame that this attitude towards wakizashi existed, even though they were probably more deadly and practical during the edo period. 

 

Kind regards

Paz

[Brian]

I don't think that is a reasonable deduction, and it has been said that there were far more swords owned by merchants, doctors and connected people than Samurai. I know our romantic side wants each sword to have been a "Samurai sword" but I think those were in the minority.

[WillFalstaff]

I wonder if some of the merchants had swords not because of bodily threats to them, but because, as we have today with the gun-porn society, they wanted to show off. Of course, samurai had training in the use of their weapons, and the merchant may have had little to no training. 

 

Reminds me of the movie 13 Assassins, where the conspirators were specifically looking for samurai who were good at using weapons because they knew the target lord's samurai were not very good fighters.

[Mark S.]

13 minutes ago, WillFalstaff said:

…as we have today with the gun-porn society, they wanted to show off.

Yeah… that’s the only reason I own mine. 

[Alex A]

You can occasionally find blades that come with some history of ownership and also blades from the late Edo period that come with an inscription of the owner, rare though.

 

Found one example, not a wak though...........

Katana:Bizen Osafune(after that unclear) (Sukemitsu) | Japanese Sword Shop Aoi-Art (aoijapan.com)

 

Be good to find more examples of both, but not got time today

 

[SteveM]

14 minutes ago, Alex A said:

You can occasionally find blades that come with some history of ownership and also blades from the late Edo period that come with an inscription of the owner, rare though.

 

 

In fact, there was one just posted today. See the thread by @Matsunoki

[WillFalstaff]

45 minutes ago, Mark S. said:

Yeah… that’s the only reason I own mine. 

 

 

Aww . . . don't feel bad Mark. Maybe I should have said tacti-cool dudes with no training. 

 

(I like gun porn, btw. Especially all of mine )

[SteveM]

@Paz There is a very long, and rich discussion on this topic in the NMB archives. You may find it very illuminating.

 

[Okan]

2 doctors..Only wakizashi I presume. 

[Jean]

If doctors, it should be bokuto

[Okan]

59 minutes ago, Jean said:

If doctors, it should be bokuto

I've read somewhere that they were allowed to wear a real sword during Bakamatsu period. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

[Paz]

15 hours ago, SteveM said:

@Paz There is a very long, and rich discussion on this topic in the NMB archives. You may find it very illuminating.

 

This was a great read, some great points by Darcy and others 

 

Thanks 

[WillFalstaff]

4 hours ago, Paz said:

This was a great read, some great points by Darcy and others 

 

Thanks 

 

The fascinating part for me was at the end, where Darcy asked the question from dealers in Japan. One opinion was that it was the junky blades that samurai owned, and the fancy-pants expensive wakizashi were owned by the merchant class. Makes me look again at my cheap, rusty wakizashi as potentially having been owned by the warrior* class.

 

 

*During the mid and late Edo period, most samurai had never seen battle and would have been canon fodder in skill compared to the earlier warring periods. 

[Paz]

33 minutes ago, WillFalstaff said:

 

The fascinating part for me was at the end, where Darcy asked the question from dealers in Japan. One opinion was that it was the junky blades that samurai owned, and the fancy-pants expensive wakizashi were owned by the merchant class. Makes me look again at my cheap, rusty wakizashi as potentially having been owned by the warrior* class.

 

 

*During the mid and late Edo period, most samurai had never seen battle and would have been canon fodder in skill compared to the earlier warring periods. 

Absolutely Will. I'd say most. During the late 18th century the shinsengumi were quite active. I learned that kondo isami had more than one blade in his collection, which meant that some of the well off samurai were purchasing more than two swords at leisure.

 

I also viewed numerous photos one poster linked to samurai photos from the 18th century,  and you can see both normal size wakizashi and o wakizashi. But the part that got me was about the population of edo and how many samurai were present in the city. 

 

The only thing I don't have a clear answer on is weather the earlier Edo period such as 1600-1690, saw more wakizashi in the hands of samurai than merchants. As I'm sure the merchant class wouldn't pick up steam until the 1700s , 100 years after the start of the new regime. I was researching this period and economics for my PhD. 

 

 

Kind regards 

Paz 

 

 

[Toryu2020]

Off topic a little bit -

 

The Shinsengumi were active for less than ten years - their first leader was Serizawa Kamo, a samurai, he was fragged by his own men. Kondo was a farmer, he had more than one sword because Matsudaira Katamori gifted him one, it was gimei. The ultimate goal of most of the members was to recieve samurai status in recognition for their service. Because of their incompetence they literally became cannon fodder at the battle of Fushimi.

 

In regards to early Edo wakizashi numbers, I would look at Nihonto Zenshi "The complete History of the Japanese sword" it has many interesting essays that often address questions like this...

 

-t

[Paz]

18 hours ago, Toryu2020 said:

Off topic a little bit -

 

The Shinsengumi were active for less than ten years - their first leader was Serizawa Kamo, a samurai, he was fragged by his own men. Kondo was a farmer, he had more than one sword because Matsudaira Katamori gifted him one, it was gimei. The ultimate goal of most of the members was to recieve samurai status in recognition for their service. Because of their incompetence they literally became cannon fodder at the battle of Fushimi.

 

In regards to early Edo wakizashi numbers, I would look at Nihonto Zenshi "The complete History of the Japanese sword" it has many interesting essays that often address questions like this...

 

-t

I've just gone ahead and brought a book on the subject of the shinsengumi  Thomas. 

Funny when I googled serizawa kamo , I'm met with anime characters. Boy I hate manga. 

[Dave R]

7 hours ago, Paz said:

I've just gone ahead and brought a book on the subject of the shinsengumi  Thomas. 

Funny when I googled serizawa kamo , I'm met with anime characters. Boy I hate manga. 

 

 I think the anime will be the one about the (more or less fictitious) adventures of the Shinsengumi. Anyway, here's the dude, and here's his armour... usually worn under his civvies.