Spring Kantei

[Jussi Ekholm]

Well it's been a while since I posted a kantei topic last time. So I thought why not do it again as I felt the last one was really fun. I hope everyone would enjoy and participate, as it's not too serious. The idea behind this is getting people activated and having fun. The item in question is something that is maybe not too often for kantei, a naginata. I have tried my best on taking photos but unfortunately they are not nearly at the level some members can take pictures. I hope that some details can be seen from the pictures. I have also tried to write a small text following the NBTHK format, having measurements and some text, which should be helpful in the identification process along with the pictures. I might have missed some details as my eye for details is not the best. Also all of the text is written by me so any errors are my errors. All of the pictures are from the same side as unfortunately there is large difference in condition between the 2 sides.

 

I think I will let this run about a week to week and half. So that people interested will have some time to hopefully participate.

 

Naginata

Measurements:

Nagasa: 45,8 cm

Sori: 2,3 cm

Motohaba: 2,6 cm

Motokasane: 11mm

Nakago-nagasa: 44,2 cm

Nakago-sori: None

 

Shape: Kanmuri-otoshi-zukuri, iori-mune, mihaba slightly narrow, slight saki-zori, there is some widening towards the cutting area.

Forging: Itame with some mokume mixed in, some nagare that is standing out, ji-nie. Small notare with gunome peaks, sunagashi and nie. Utsuri is slightly visible.

Bōshi: Sugu with ko-maru

Horimono: On both sides naginata-hi

Nakago: Ubu, end slightly shortened, 2 mekugi ana, nagamei on omote side and date on ura side.

[Brian]

I'm hoping the silence is people hitting the books.
Thank you Jussi for this. I'll be researching inbetween work tomorrow. Naginata are not easy, so this should be interesting. For now, I'd guess Shinto..but let's see after some reading up.

[Rivkin]

Later generation Hizen Tadayoshi?

[Alex A]

Aye, give us a bit of time on this one

 

Cheers

[Brian]

Here goes nothing....
Dewa daijo fujiwara Kunimichi.

[David Flynn]

Late Muramachi Mino,  Kanenobu?

[Alex A]

Tough one, could take me all spring

 

Im going all out NBTHK and saying Den Tegai.

[WillFalstaff]

Throwing in with 3 month’s experience in all of this — Sadamune, Nanbokucho, Sagami province. 

[MarcoUdin]

I'm not even on an amateur level of kantei, but only thing I got is Mino influenced

[WillFalstaff]

9 hours ago, MarcoUdin said:

I'm not even on an amateur level of kantei, but only thing I got is Mino influenced

 

I'm at the level of: I-know-how-to-read-words-in-books-about-pointy-things-from-half-way-around-the-world. At least it's gotten me on the hamster wheel. 

 

[Caracal]

I'm guessing Smith Sunshu Ju Kanesada, Edo period.

Sunshu Ju Kanesada was working at Suruga province.

The blade looks Koto feeling but I think that it is an Edo Naginata.

The shape looks like a combination of shobu zukuri and unokubi zukuri.

 

//Robert

[Toryu2020]

Spoiler

SO we don't mention nie-deki or nioi-deki but the presence of utsuri points me towards Bizen - sakizori, nagamei with a date suggests Oei or later - it is a very elegant shape for late Muromachi but I am still gonna go for Sukesada, Nagamitsu (Ei-naga) or someone like that...

 

Nice piece.

[Rivkin]

1 hour ago, Toryu2020 said:

Nice piece.

 

I think you might be right here - for some reason I was hasty with Hizen guess, it does look koto. Damn, should not kantei on a smartphone.

I would through a bit tangential thought though - Ryokai-Muromachi. But suspect Bizen is the correct answer.

unfortunately that is one of the things where I can't distinguish well between Uda, Bizen, Fuyuhiro, Bungo and Ryokai.

[Baba Yaga]

It has a real nice look - shape to it. I learned not to guess no matter how good the photos. 

Nothing better than rotating in the direct sun light. Big guess Koto? 

[Alex A]

The first thing that made me think Koto was the 2 mekugi-ana., zooming in one looks larger than the other.  Im not saying this is factual but something that rang a bell as to what ive come across over the years, just an inkling

 

Once you get an idea in your head its difficult to back track

 

Well done to the new guys above for having a go, good answers. 

 

Think some folk are scared to look bad and get it wrong and avoid these kantei. For me, being wrong goes hand in hand with this hobby, even Shinsa get it wrong!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DoTanuki yokai]

Sue Bizen Sukesada before Momoyama. 

[FZ1]

4 hours ago, Alex A said:

The first thing that made me think Koto was the 2 mekugi-ana.

 

The first thing that made me think Koto is that Jussi is posting it!  

 

Jon

[Alex A]

1 hour ago, FZ1 said:

 

The first thing that made me think Koto is that Jussi is posting it!  

 

Jon

Being honest, that was my first thought too, and  can tell you i definitely didnt google the words “Jussi” & “Naginata” 

[WillFalstaff]

The mention of utsuri immediately made me think Bizen at first, but as it wasn't a defining feature and "slightly visible" might mean a smith working with Bizen style.

[Alex A]

Wouldnt get too fixed on Utsuri, Bizen wasnt the only one.

[Ronin 47]

Late Muromachi, Dōtanuki (同田貫) perhaps? 

[Gakusee]

Nice shape, the nie and utsuri and hamon sort of point me to Unju/Unji. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I am very happy to see people participating. Having fun in researching & guessing is the most important thing. I will post the answer on Tuesday and small write up that I have made.

[cju777]

Shot in the dark, Sue-Enju or someone drawing linage to them in early Shinto/Momoyama transition.

 

Can't explain why very well after hitting the books and photos than longer than I expected , just a feeling.

 

Thanks Jussi!

[paulb]

Thanks Jussi,

In looking at this I have realised how rarely naginata appear in kantei exercises and how little I know about them. Taking your description of the hada and the fact it has slightly visible utsuri  I am inclined to Oei Bizen but it could be as Michael suggests a work by unji/unju.

I am guessing and am keen to see the result.

thanks again

 

[Franco D]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:21 AM, Jussi Ekholm said:

Utsuri is slightly visible.

 

What type of utsuri?

Nioi utsuri?

Nie utsuri?

Hamon; primarily nioi? Nie? Ko Nie?

 

Thank you.

[Rivkin]

6 hours ago, paulb said:

Thanks Jussi,

In looking at this I have realised how rarely naginata appear in kantei exercises and how little I know about them. Taking your description of the hada and the fact it has slightly visible utsuri  I am inclined to Oei Bizen but it could be as Michael suggests a work by unji/unju.

I am guessing and am keen to see the result.

thanks again

 

 

That's a first for me. Realizing as noted how much more difficult it is compared to conventional blades. It feels like many things boshi etc. simply do not apply.

[Alex A]

For me, “Kanmuri-otoshi-zukuri”, was the starting point.

 

Then trying make it all fit with the details in the blade

 

Not easy, as mentioned there is not a lot of info

 

 

[Mark S.]

Going out on a bit of a limb, but maybe later Naminohira?

[Jussi Ekholm]

I hope everyone had fun looking into naginata for a change. Like many I had dreamed on having a naginata in my collection and I missed few old ones in Japan very closely in the last 5 or so years. So even though rationally I really shouldn't have even thought about this, my heart was pushing me to this when I saw this at Nihonto Australia around Christmas time. I just felt I won't be able to have a chance for such an item in long long time if I miss this one. This had passed Hozon in 2021 and here is the answer:

 

 

Explanation: Zaimei naginata signed 備州長船義景 / 嘉慶三年二月日 (Bishū Osafune Yoshikage – Kakei 3 nen 2 gatsu hi [1389]). This naginata is work by second generation Yoshikage. According to tradition first generation was the son of Kagemitsu (景光) and/or a student of Chikakage (近景) and second generation was a student of Kanemitsu (兼光) it is also said that he was the son-in-law of Chōgi (長義). However more recent studies have been associating Yoshikage more closely to Osafune side lines like Chikakage (近景) and Morikage (盛景). This has been mentioned in more recent Jūyō and Tokubetsu Jūyō explanations for Yoshikage, when in earlier sources he has been put towards Sōden-Bizen group. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find many extant blades by the second generation Yoshikage, I will attach naginata from Jūyō 13 (dated 1388) and the description for it, it is very similar to this naginata. I translated it myself so there can be errors so I will attach the original Japanese text too. I will quote this part of it “Judging from the ordinary worksmanship, it is seen as work of second generation, these are generally referred as Kozori-mono” So the worksmanship of second generation Yoshikage seem to also fit the “outsider” group Kozori who presumably didn’t work with main line Osafune smith traditions. Kozori group is interesting as their work generally is from late Nanbokuchō to early Muromachi period and of certain style but I think there is lot to research on Kozori. With some earliest work by some Kozori smiths being around mid-Nanbokuchō period.

 

I have listed Yoshikage as Sōden-Bizen smiths in my personal records, however due to more recent info I might have to adjust it. Unfortunately, dated items by Yoshikage smiths are extremely rare, and so far I have found only 7 items.

 

Jūyō 61 there is a wakizashi dated 1357

Jūyō 46 there is naginata-naoshi dated 1363

NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon tantō dated 1363

Jūyō Bunkazai wakizashi owned by Tanzan Jinja dated to 1374

Jūyō 16 there is tachi by Yoshikage dated 1379

Jūyō 13 there is the naginata dated to 1388.

This naginata with NBTHK Hozon dated to 1389

 

Out of these 7 the first 5 items are judged as work by first generation Yoshikage, and naginata (+ I would assume this naginata for kantei) by second generation. I am also aware of 7 signed swords without date and I believe they are all attributed towards the first generation Yoshikage. 5 Tachi out of which one is also dated but the era and the smith are unreadable but attributed towards Yoshikage. And two blades with orikaeshi-mei (a katana and a wakizashi). So, the total that I have found thus far is 14 signed blades by Yoshikage.

 

In general Naginata dated pre 1400 are extremely rare. Over the years I have gone through thousands and thousands of items in my research and so far I have been able to find only 37 naginata and naginata-naoshi that have pre 1400 date. Out of these 23 are NBTHK Jūyō and Tokubetsu Jūyō items and other 14 with various designations, some high government or provincial designations and some lower NBTHK designations etc. I am sure there are some more as I haven’t been able to dig through all items in shrine/temple collections, all museums, or imperial collection and surviving major collections etc. But the point here is that very old dated naginata are rare historically important items.

 

Here is the naginata from Jūyō 13 and my own translation.

 

 

Quote

薙刀 銘 備州長船義景 / 嘉慶二年六月日

法量 長一尺六寸二分半 反七分 元幅八分二厘 茎長一尺七寸弱 茎反なし

形状 薙刀造, 三つ棟, 身幅やや細く, 先反ややつく.

鍛 板目に杢交り, 肌流れごころに立ち, 地沸つく. 小湾れに角ごころの互の目交り, 小足入り, 砂流しかかり, 沸つく.

帽子 直ぐに先小丸

彫物 表裏薙刀樋に添樋掻流す

茎 生ぶ, 先浅い栗尻, 鑢目筋違, 目釘孔三, 表に長銘, 裏に年紀がある

説明 嘉慶年紀のある長船義景在銘で, 僅かに区を送ってはいるが殆んど生ぶ茎の薙刀である.  義景は相伝備前と呼ばれる南北朝期の刀工で, その現在する有銘作は極めて稀れであるが, この薙刀は南北朝も末期の嘉慶という年紀から見ても, 又小湾れの平凡な焼刃から見てもその二代と鑑せられ, 一般に小反物と総称されるものである. とに角, この時代の有銘の薙刀は珍しく, 資料的にも貴重である.

Naginata – Mei – Bishū Osafune Yoshikage / Kakei 2 nen 6 gatsu hi (1388)

Measurements:

Nagasa – 1 shaku 6 sun 2 bu and half (49,3 cm)

Sori – 7 bu (2,1 cm)

Motohaba – 8 bu 2 rin (2,5 cm)

Nakago-nagasa – slightly less than 1 shaku 7 sun (51,5 cm)

Nakago-sori – none

Shape: Naginata-zukuri, mitsumune, mihaba slightly narrow, slight saki-zori

Forging: Itame with moku mixed in, nagare that is standing out, ji-nie. Small notare with gunome peaks, small ashi, sunagashi and nie.

Bōshi: Sugu with ko-maru

Horimono: On both sides naginata-hi and soe-bi

Nakago: Ubu, end kurijiri, yasurime sujikai, 3 mekugi ana, nagamei on omote side and date on ura side.

Setsumei: Zaimei by Osafune Yoshikage of Kakei era, even though slightly machi-okuri it is naginata with almost ubu nakago. Yoshikage is a Nanbokuchō era smith from Sōden Bizen school. Although he is well known signed work are extremely rare, this naginata is from the end of Nanbokuchō period from Kakei era. Judging from the ordinary worksmanship, it is seen as work of second generation, these are generally referred as Kozori-mono. Famous signed naginata from this era are rare, it is also valuable as reference material.