Oh no! Tadamitsu again?!

[ShuShinKan]

Dear all,

thank you for following all my Tadamitsu enquiries on this forum.

 

To sum up everything thas has come up during discussion with you and

others, the blade seems to be connected to the following facts:

 

Date: EiSho first year (1504) 8th Month on a lucky day.

Mei: Bizen No Kuni Ju Osafune Tadamitsu.

 

Two independent specialists point out Heiuemonnojo Fujiwara Tadmitsu (son to Hikobei Tadamitsu (1469) as a potential creator.

 

It has a bo-hi on both sides and 2 Fukure + one that not yet has opened up.

 

The following litterature I do not own personally nor do I have them available in another way.

 

Heiuemonnojo is rated with 10 of 100 points by "Hawleys in TA70a" More information seems to be in Fujishiro Koto Volume page 193/194.

 

An opinion that I want to reflect at this time is the way the kanji is made. Are they typical for koto? Are they too deep, to wide, to strong, to weak?

 

Would it be possible to send me some oshigata from Heiuemonnojo Tadamitsu when you have them available in a book or digtal, so I have something to compare, alt. give me hints on litterature where the pictures are present?

Someone described the mei on the photo as "Tagane Makura".

So what is different between koto mei, edo mei, shinto mei?

I am happy for all suggestions!

Here a link to a collection of pictures with the ?Tadamitsu blade? (>3MB)

http://www.kvarnberg.se/ShuShinKan/KMKa ... amitsu.jpg

[John A Stuart]

'tagane makura' always indicated, to me, that the mei was lately done, shinto or later because the edges had not worn down or deeply incised originally. John

[John A Stuart]

TADAMITSU HEIUEMONNOJÔ [EISHÔ 1504 BIZEN] SUEKOTÔ JÔSAKU

He was the son of Hikobei Tadamitsu, and on a work signed Eishô Gannen, there is "OSAFUNE TADAMITSU (NO) KO HEIUEMONNOJÔ SAKU KORE HORIMONO OTÔTO MATASHIRO" ["This was made by Heiuemonnojô, son of Osafune Tadamitsu, and the horimono was done by his younger brother Matashiro"]. Horimono of a fine kenmakiryû appears more frequently than in the works of Hikobei, hamon is suguba or gonome midare.

Signatures: BIZEN KUNI JÛ OSAFUNE HEIUEMONNOJÔ FUJIWARA TADAMITSU

BIZEN KUNI JÛ OSAFUNE TADAMITSU

Heiuemonnojô Tadamitsu is not in the Meikan, but he is the same as the person referred to in the Kokin Kaji Bikô about whom it says "As for the third generation, there are many uchimono signed "Bizen Osafune Tadamitsu" or with two large characters, a Wazamono between Eishô and Eiroku". However, the mei with two large kanji have not been seen, and works up to about Eishô Jûnen have been seen. Since he came before Heiuemonnojô Takamitsu of Eishô jûninen, jûrokunen, it is thought that they are the same person, but they are probably of the same extended family.

 

Page 195

Plate I: BUNKI NINEN MIZUNOE-INU SANGATSU

Plate II: BIZEN KUNI JÛ OSAFUNE HEIUEMONNOJÔ FUJIWARA TADAMITSU ?

Plate III: ? EISHÔ KYÛNEN HACHIGATSU KICHIJITSU

[ShuShinKan]

would that mean that the mei in koto is not as deep as in shinto?

Sorry, but I have difficulties to understand the differences.

Could you paint a picture(metapher)?

 

:-)

John, the right picture, that is unsharp, seems to come quite close the "handwriting of my mei. Would it be possible to get a more sharp picture of that one? That would be great and help me a lot :-)

[Brian]

Gunther,

No..the age has nothing to do with the style, depth or appearance of the mei. It is a signature, and different smiths signed differently.

Age may wear down the surface of the mei, and especially the raised areas where the metal is pushed up by the chisel...but both of those aren't reliable and can only be used in conjunction with all the other usual factors.

I feel there isn't more you can learn about this one, besides the fact that it is a Tadamitsu and there were many of them. From here you either have to submit to a shinsa to get any closer, or have it polished so that you can see it better.

 

Brian

[ShuShinKan]

Hi Brian,

a curator from liverpool wrote me that it might be falsified. That is why i am interested in gimei and all the other questions that I posed recently. I'd like to buy the tadamitsu blade in question but would like to exclude as much as possible that it is made later on but signed gimei.

Is there a lower price limit for koto blades in good polish? the price idea of the seller is about $1300 and depending on who I am asking it seems ridiculus low (so i am careful) but it might also be too expensive without papers. So I am caught in the middle and it will surely be the last sword I will buy during the next 2 years.

[Stephen]

GS

 

I understand you want a koto blade on the cheap, i am sure down the line that hunking fukura will bother you to no end, think about shoping around, my two marks for what its worth.

[paulb]

Gunther,

At risk of pushing you where you do not want to go and repeating points often written here, I really think you need to look carefully at what you are trying to achieve. I can understand (and sympathise) with your wish to buy a good Koto sword, I have spent 20+ years doing the same. However being Koto does not make it a good sword, in fact there are some absolutely awful swords mass produced in the 1500s which have no artistic merit at all.

Rather than focussing on age look for quality.

I do not believe you are likely to buy a good or even reasonable koto blade for you budget.

As Peter Farrar mentioned you could buy a reasonable Shinto Wakazashi in good polish for thar price.

I am concerned that if you limit yourself to looking only at Koto pieces within your budget you are going to be very dissapointed with the end result.

Sorry if I am putting a damper on your enthusiam but it would be a shame if having put so much effort in to your purchase you ended up with poor value.

Regards

Paul

[Link]

  paulb said:

Gunther,

At risk of pushing you where you do not want to go and repeating points often written here, I really think you need to look carefully at what you are trying to achieve. I can understand (and sympathise) with your wish to buy a good Koto sword, I have spent 20+ years doing the same. However being Koto does not make it a good sword, in fact there are some absolutely awful swords mass produced in the 1500s which have no artistic merit at all.

Rather than focussing on age look for quality.

I do not believe you are likely to buy a good or even reasonable koto blade for you budget.

As Peter Farrar mentioned you could buy a reasonable Shinto Wakazashi in good polish for thar price.

I am concerned that if you limit yourself to looking only at Koto pieces within your budget you are going to be very dissapointed with the end result.

Sorry if I am putting a damper on your enthusiam but it would be a shame if having put so much effort in to your purchase you ended up with poor value.

Regards

Paul

 

Gunther, listen to Paul. I am also new to the sword game and bought a really good quality shinto blade and have been able to study the blade to no end (so far). It was made by a low ranked smith but he out did him self on the blade I bought and I'm much happier with quality than a little flash. I don't think other than status you won't get a lot out of a 1300.00 koto blade. Just my 2 cents

Good luck

[Jean]

Gunther,

 

For a few $ you can send a picture of the mei to NTHK and get an advice (it is not Shinsa).....Do not ask me for details but some on the board will gladly help.

[ShuShinKan]

Hi everybody!

 

Thank you for your comments and advices! I will not go and get the tadamitsu in question. If somebody is interested I can provide contact information to the owner.

 

I have learned a lot and mostly I learn, as cool as I seem to be, I am still more guided on the wish than on the wisdom.

So I take this as an educational step and look for an affordable shinto blade.

Are there some secret web-places where I can take a look around?

I'll chek out the links above but would like to get something european...

[Jean]

Gunther,

 

The greatest choice is in Japan. Prices too