WW2 made Wakizashi - How common are they?

[Ed Harbulak]

I have seen a Yasukuni Shrine blade by Yasumitsu, dated May 1939 that was ubu with a blade length of 22.8 inches or 57.9 cm fully mounted in original WWII mounts. So yes, wakizashi length blades were made for military use. There were officers of shorter height who no doubt either didn't need or want a blade longer than 24 inches or 2 shaku. The blade mounts on that Yasumitsu were of high quality and perhaps the blade and mounts were custom ordered to meet the buyer's demands. Since it was an ubu, Yasukuni blade shorter than a katana, I think we can safely say wakizashi length blades, while perhaps rare, were produced during the war. 

[Dave R]

  On 4/1/2022 at 11:33 PM, robinalexander said:

I will also add a pic of the small metal (brass?) build-up that has been 'fixed' to the nakago.  I suspect this was done in order to take-up slack between the blade and seppa because it is too far back to be an adjustment for a tsuba....but I would be happy to receive any thoughts on that 

Expand  

 

 Please check that this is not a brazed on tang to the blade..... Something that I have seen in the past, and was done to deceive.

[PNSSHOGUN]

There was also a Koa Isshin Mantetsu wakizashi posted a couple of years back.

[robinalexander]

Hi John I did a little research and thought I would link the thread you refer to for posterity.

 

I think this might be the thread you refer to but, on a quick scan of the info, it doesn't appear that 'Ed' ever showed pictures of it (for one reason or another )  Some very experienced members seemed sceptical at the time.

 

If there is another thread just let me know and I will continue research so we can capture it on this thread.

Rob

[robinalexander]

And another 2010 thread re Mantetsu Wakizashi that very mysteriously seemed to be lacking pictures.

 

 

[robinalexander]

Dave @Dave R will post some pics tonight on that 'metal addition' to nakago and possibility of tang 'replacement'.

 

It doesn't look like it unless the smith had the skill of neurosurgeon.  

 

I was wrong about one thing though.  The 'metal addition' is not really aligned to be under either seppa but rather, is positioned to align with a tsuba's nakago-ana. Will show that as well.

 

Will get back to you.

Rob

[robinalexander]

Dave,

 

Have attached a pic each of the four 'sides' of nakago and I dont think there has been any brazen braising going on here.

 

Good thought though.  I would rather know about something like that than thinking I had something that really, wasn't!

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 4/3/2022 at 6:35 AM, robinalexander said:

, it doesn't appear that 'Ed' ever showed pictures of it (for one reason or another )  Some very experienced members seemed sceptical at the time

Expand  

He did state the Nagasa was 22 inches though.

[robinalexander]

 

I find this quite interesting Bruce  @Bruce Pennington

 

In the 2010/11 (Mantetsu Wak) thread, Christian Chaffee said he had one in hand (21.5 inches) but despite requests from members for pics, there are none on the NMB.  He did say he posted them however, they did not appear and no one followed-up on the 'missing' pictures.  I find it quite incredible that a person who was asking NMB members for a sale price on a Mantetsu Wak so he could post it on Ebay, would not post pictures on the NMB as part of that query. 

 

In 2017 'Ed' also had one in hand (21 inch nagasa) and posted pics of a nakago (Mantetsu Wak) and later evidently posted further pics (of what I'm not sure) and some members obviously saw those pics but 'Ed' then quite strangely removed the link to those pictures and stated " BTW: I removed the link, as I only intended for the few people here following this thread to see it."  Now what sort of a reason is that for removing a link to pics of a very rare Mantetsu Wak - why would anyone do that???

 

Are there one, two or three Mantetsu Wak's out there....who knows.  If they are out there then methinks they are all a little camera shy! 

 

Why are there no pictures (apart from a nakago) of something as important and rare as this?

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2022 at 3:35 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

He did state the Nagasa was 22 inches though.

Expand  

Bruce I thought he said 21 inches but either way this reminds of another article I read in regard the the Lochness monster...... a couple of eye witnesses from Scotland after seeing the Lochness monster also stated that the creature had a large body about 4 foot high and 25 feet long with a long narrow neck slightly thicker than an elephants trunk and as long as the width of the road (10-12 foot)

 

......but guess what, no pics of that either.

 

I am not saying Mantetsu Wakazashi's don't exist but I have never seen one and can't locate any picture of one if anyone does have clear, full and complete pictures of a Mantetsu Wakizishi then I am sure NMB members would be quite interested and this would be a great place to post them for, as you quite rightly say, posterity.

 

Rob

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

I remember the pictures before they were deleted, it was a fair dinkum Koa Isshin wakizashi. The pictures and link were perhaps removed at the request of the owner.

[robinalexander]

Thanks John,

 

That is a real shame about the pictures but it is good to be able to confirm that and capture members memories before they start to disappear (memories that is ).

Rob

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi guys.  I have 3 Mantetsu on file:

Spring '39 "O  4"  Chopped down nakago

Aut. '40 "WA 33" Ed's post; made that way; 21" nagasa

Aut. '40 "WA 73" made that way

 

I have sections of photos of Ed's posted blade, but not the full length.  I believe his to have been made that way due to the fact that I DO have full photos of the sister-blade WA 73, and it's clear it was made that way.  The nakagos of both look original and the bohi of "73" curves around the kissaki, showing it wasn't shortened at the blade tip.

 

Here they are:

1939 "O  4"

 

1940 WA 33

 

1940 WA 73

 

[robinalexander]

Thanks Bruce that is fantastic.  Great record keeping skills.

 

Nice to have them grouped this way.  Impressive!

 

Rob

[robinalexander]

Just found this old thread on Showato Wakizashi and thought I would add it here for future reference (not wishing to revive this thread)

My First Gunto Blade Signed

---

By DanielGJ,
May 10, 2018 in Military Swords of Japan

[Dave R]

  On 4/3/2022 at 7:59 AM, robinalexander said:

Dave,

 

Have attached a pic each of the four 'sides' of nakago and I dont think there has been any brazen braising going on here.

 

Good thought though.  I would rather know about something like that than thinking I had something that really, wasn't!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

 

 The one I saw was very "brazen", and used the habaki to hide the join, which is why I always advise to remove the habaki, however stuck it might be.

[Kiipu]

  On 9/3/2022 at 5:51 AM, robinalexander said:

Just found this old thread on Showato Wakizashi and thought I would add it here for future reference (not wishing to revive this thread)

Expand  

 

I could not get the page to open?  I am sure Brian will point out the errors of my way; but in the mean time, see the link below.

My First Gunto Blade Signed

[robinalexander]

Thanks Thomas @KiipuI will have to read the posting info and work out how to copy Thread Links

[Brian]

Either way: Just copy the url of the entire page, and paste it from the top of your browser.
Or... (and if you want to link to a certain post) just click the 3 dots to the top right of a post, choose "share" and it will give you the link to copy and paste.

[Bruce Pennington]

Best thread I could find to post this.  An older waki in custom kaigunto fittings, posted on this Gunboards Thread.  It also has the patented drag.  Could I get a translation for the owner?

 

[John C]

  On 6/13/2024 at 12:50 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

An older waki in custom kaigunto fittings

Expand  

Bruce:

Did Naval Aviators carry naval mounts or army style mounts on their gunto? I hesitate to go here, however a wak sized gunto for an aviator?

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

Lots of photos here, John, and not one waki:

 

 

[John C]

  On 6/13/2024 at 5:55 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

not one waki:

Expand  

I've only seen a few as well - just wondering if swords like this were a catalyst for the myth.

 

John C.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Oh, and I missed your actual question.  There was a short period of time when the Type 94 was on the street, and the 97 had not been produced, that Naval officers carried Army gunto.  But as you can see in those photos of that other thread, once the 97 came out, aviators carried it, not the Army gunto.