WW2 made Wakizashi - How common are they?

[robinalexander]

Have been considering posting this for some time. 

 

I have an undated Kanemitsu Wakizashi with Sho stamp.

 

A good sword mate mentioned that it's rare to find a Wak made during WW2 period and maybe only 1 in 100 Wak's fall into this category.

 

I have noticed the odd mention of this on other threads but thought it could be interesting to explore just how 'rare' they may be and how many are owned by members.

 

So if you have one, please post.

 

Mine is an un-dated Nōshū seki jū-nin Kanemitsu saku kore.

 

Nagasa 562 mm

Nakago 210 mm

Tsuka 245 mm

Sori 125 mm

Overall length 860 mm

Not sure about the authenticity of the tsuba.

 

Randomly picked up at auction a few years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robinalexander]

Couple more...

 

 

[ChrisW]

I believe these are what you call "Gunzoku" mounts -- civilian military contractors. I could be wrong though. Bruce will have your answer I am certain.

[robinalexander]

Final pics....

[Dave R]

 

 The fuchi/kashira is of the late war type, and non-regulation menuki are not unknown and in this case could even be from the original koshirae, like the saya.

 According to Mr Komiya there is no such thing as a Gunzoku koshirae  in the regs. but we see this type turn up again and again, so might be more due to exigencies of service than anything else. According to regs. the defining feature of a Gunzoku sword is an army length plain brown silk sword knot. The IJN one is shorter and a different shade of brown. (Mr Komiya admits that he is not a "sword guy", but he is The Man for IJA documents)

 The tsuba is of the "Bamboo leaf" design, not at all common but well known. All in all a typical late war package of an old sword, or in this case a pre-war Buke zukuri Showato remounted to go on military service.

[robinalexander]

 

 

Thanks for your comment David,  I understand what Chris is saying but tend to agree that the shortage of materials, late war, necessitated  the call for civilian swords for active service.

 

I'm just not clear as to why a Seki gunto smith would have made, or had a commission for, a Wakazashi blade sometime between 1935-1945 only to have had it mounted in civilian Koshirae to take to war. (excepting the combat cover of course).

 

Interesting that the 'Bamboo Leaf' design tsuba is not common......I would like tk think it is a genuine period piece rather than a later modern addition.

 

To return to the rarity, or not, of WW2 produced Wakizashi's ....no advance on that question at this point.

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Certainly a rare and intriguing one. The Sho stamp turns everything upside down. Nice item.

[Dave R]

 Pre war Showa there was a bit of a revival in sword arts, and you can find Showa era blades in traditional style mounts. Often there were shortcuts in the forging, and once the rules came in, they would be stamped to show this.

 I have about a dozen of these on my computer files, and a handful are Wakizashi.

[Dave R]

 

 If you are going to do cutting practice, using old mounts is risking your own and others safety, and similar issues with old blades, though cost could be the main factor here..... Or a belief that a new blade would give better results!

[robinalexander]

Thanks again David..very nice koshira.

 

Personally.... no cutting practice for me.  Similarly, no "swings around the man cave" with anything (except the little lady 😊)

 

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

I'm afraid I don't really have an answer for you, Rob, other than from personal observation, I haven't seen that many waki that were clearly made during the war.  Most that I see were older, civil waki brought to the war.  Something to me, that is peculiar, are the odd few, like yours, both waki and full length, showa stamped blades (so made during the war) in civil fittings, but obviously RE-fitted with leather saya cover and sometimes other military hardware.  It's like someone bought a showato for personal, civil, use, but then it wound up getting sold to the military or donated for the war.

 

I feel like yours fits this mystery category.  The late-war kabutogane and leather covered saya are classic military re-fits for war.  While the rest of the fittings seem civil.  I even think the tsuba is civil, as the leaf pattern isn't one of the known Gunzoku styles.  Having said that, since, like Dave points out, there doesn't seem to be any mil-specs on what a Gunzoku tsuba SHOULD look like, this one could still be a late-war shop variation for the Gunzoku.

 

Here's the known common Gunzoku pattern tsuba (thanks to Ohmura's site)

But here's yours:

 

Still could be Gunzoku, but haven't seen this pattern before.  I'd go 50/50 on that vs a purely civil tsuba, brought to the war and refitted.

[robinalexander]

Thanks Bruce...so the discussion on the mounts/fittings will go on for some time I imagine.  Its a great topic to explore and see other's ideas.  

 

In regard to the rarity of Showa stamped Waks, it does seem like 1:100 could be an extremely conservative estimation and it may be that they may be much more 'unique'.  

 

There hasn't been any 'flood' of showa waks onto this thread and I accept that that could be for any number of good reasons but .... seeing I have one , I will dream a little and treasure my quite rare piece of history 

 

Its getting rarer and rarer by the moment 

 

Rob

[PNSSHOGUN]

Can recall 2 Wakizashi with Seki stamps, didn't think to save pictures though. Certainly very uncommon and desirable, especially if one was in appropriately sized Type 98 koshirae.

[Shamsy]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:13 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Can recall 2 Wakizashi with Seki stamps, didn't think to save pictures though. Certainly very uncommon and desirable, especially if one was in appropriately sized Type 98 koshirae.

 

One that I used to own is in the short gunto thread.

[Dave R]

As has been said, most wakizashi in gunto mounts are old blades new mounted for the emergency... But I found these two in my files. Both Seki stamped so no doubts about when they were made.

[robinalexander]

Nice one Dave....is it possible that the first example (above) has been shortened (from katana length).  From my limited experience, it seems to be a very straight blade for a Wakizashi?

 

Rob

[Dave R]

 

 Both swords still have signatures and stamps on the tang, so they are as they were made. Showa blades can depart widely from tradition, blade shape, blade material and forging technique. 

 Amahida made some very different blades to traditional, a conversation on this site linked here.

 

 

[robinalexander]

Thanks Dave, 

 

I will read that thread but a quick question in the mean time.

 

Would a katana ever be shortened from the kissaki end due to a fatal flaw or breakage (therefore retaining mei etc) or would that never be done?

 

Probably a stupid question.

 

Rob

[Kolekt-To]

I seem to recall this topic being addressed on the board, but were there not cases of army and navy officers carrying waks? I'm not simply referring the cases (or the myth) of pilots or tankers carrying a shorter gunto. I realize that carrying a wak was not common, but it did occur, among the ranks of army and navy officers, did it not?

[Dave R]

7 hours ago, robinalexander said:

Thanks Dave, 

 

I will read that thread but a quick question in the mean time.

 

Would a katana ever be shortened from the kissaki end due to a fatal flaw or breakage (therefore retaining mei etc) or would that never be done?

 

Probably a stupid question.

 

Rob

 

 On a Showato only as a quick and dirty fix in the field during the war, so it's very uncommon....It would be visible to a trained eye and the value of the blade gone forever so no point in retaining the mei. But why suggest such a rare thing when there is solid evidence for Showa made wakizashi.http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/flaws.html 

 

 

[robinalexander]

7 hours ago, Dave R said:

But why suggest such a rare thing when there is solid evidence for Showa made wakizashi

Dave it was actually a question rather than 'suggestion'.  Just an open question that came to me when I saw your first Wakizashi picture (Re: Shawn McDonald's post).  The blade just appeared so straight that I wondered about possible shortening therefore leaving all nakago markings untouched (Showato in this case). 

 

You have ably answered that query, thank you.  

 

The link on flaws is very good tks also for that.

 

Rob 

[Shamsy]

On 3/26/2022 at 5:00 AM, Kolekt-To said:

I seem to recall this topic being addressed on the board, but were there not cases of army and navy officers carrying waks? I'm not simply referring the cases (or the myth) of pilots or tankers carrying a shorter gunto. I realize that carrying a wak was not common, but it did occur, among the ranks of army and navy officers, did it not?

Yep. Absolutely. Most are older, traditional blades remounted for military use. May have a military koshirae, may be civilian koshirae with a leather combat cover, maybe be a leather covered shirasaya even. Some rarer blade examples are wartime made, as with those in this thread. This topic has been extensively covered in the short gunto thread which is likely where you read it.

[Michaelr]

Dave and Rob, I had in my hand a so called seki stamped and signed Wakizashi that the owner ( a knowledgeable sword person ) said was original. Although I am not as knowledgeable as him it did appear to me that it had indeed been shortened from the kassiki end and reshaped. The blade was in just OK shape so to really see Boshi , especially at a show, with show lighting, was nearly impossible. Dave it was just my opinion at that time that this blade was indeed once a Katana and damaged and repaired in the field. With better lighting and a blade in a little better condition maybe it would have been a nobrainer but under the conditions at the time it was a tough call. Never say never as everything happened. In time of War I think that I would rather retain my reshaped and shortened katana than be swordless because the tip was broken.  Just my two cents, as I have been collecting military stuff for over 50 years I have learned never say never and just when you think you have seem it all something pops up that defies all logic    MikeR

[Dave R]

43 minutes ago, Michaelr said:

Dave and Rob, I had in my hand a so called seki stamped and signed Wakizashi that the owner ( a knowledgeable sword person ) said was original. Although I am not as knowledgeable as him it did appear to me that it had indeed been shortened from the kassiki end and reshaped. The blade was in just OK shape so to really see Boshi , especially at a show, with show lighting, was nearly impossible. Dave it was just my opinion at that time that this blade was indeed once a Katana and damaged and repaired in the field. With better lighting and a blade in a little better condition maybe it would have been a nobrainer but under the conditions at the time it was a tough call. Never say never as everything happened. In time of War I think that I would rather retain my reshaped and shortened katana than be swordless because the tip was broken.  Just my two cents, as I have been collecting military stuff for over 50 years I have learned never say never and just when you think you have seem it all something pops up that defies all logic    MikeR

 

 As you say, never say never! But to put it bluntly, this was a well dodgy thing to do and driven by necessity/desperation and not choice. I will let someone more knowledgeable than I answer you. A screenshot from a conversation some years ago, and a photo taken in the field.

 

[robinalexander]

Michael, thank you for sharing your experience it is so good to read this first hand account and what may, or may not, be a Showa-To Wakizashi. It is appreciated.

 

I would like a dollar for every time a Togishi reshaped a kissaki due to chipping etc.  To my mind it's only logical that that same thinking would apply to rectifying more severe damage by shortening a blade to either, a short katana or even wakizashi length, if it was thought to be operationally (of even financially?) necessary.

 

Dave, I think Chris Bowen's post @cabowenis absolutely spot on. Thanks for including.

 

Not sure about logical in marrying up the picture with the actual wording in the caption...i have to admit I am a little lost with that one.

 

BUT.....Just to bring the thread back on track the real question for me is how many WW2 Waks were made?.... or better...still exist?

 

Again, if you have one, then just wak it up.

Rob

 

 

 

[Dave R]

"Not sure about logical in marrying up the picture with the actual wording in the caption...i have to admit I am a little lost with that one."

 

 Broken sword in need of repair!

 

[Michaelr]

Thank you Dave for sharing that article. MikeR

[Dave R]

 I posted the broken sword pic, as an example of the sort of damage that would need the radical reshape in the field.

 I think the tang would still be the clue as to original intent of the maker, a Showa Katana had a very substantial nakago, very near the length of the Tsuka. A wakizashi would have a shorter one, and perhaps also near the length of the shorter tsuka for such. So I would think that a cut down in the field would be out of proportion.

[robinalexander]

On 3/20/2022 at 8:20 PM, Dave R said:

The tsuba is of the "Bamboo leaf" design, not at all common but well known.

I have been asked by a fellow member (not Dave) who has an interest in 'civilian' tsuba, to post some clearer pics.  

 

 

[robinalexander]

I will also add a pic of the small metal (brass?) build-up that has been 'fixed' to the nakago.  I suspect this was done in order to take-up slack between the blade and seppa because it is too far back to be an adjustment for a tsuba....but I would be happy to receive any thoughts on that