Gassan Sadakatsu and Masamune's secret process

[David Flynn]

Bryce, as this Tanto is dated 1943, I would assume it's Dai Saku, Dai Mei.   Sadakatsu died in Dec. 1943 and I'm led to believe he wasn't well for quite awhile before he passed.

[IJASWORDS]

[Surfson]

I do love ayasugi hada.  I have a tanto with that grain as well as a Dewa Gassan blade.  It's an amazing technique.

[DoTanuki yokai]

On 3/15/2022 at 2:20 AM, Stephen said:

Something in rambling around in my fog of a brain I think it's seven plate forging is a secret recipe I might be wrong.

 

I have encountered this Diagramm several times in the last years expanding his reach from wikipedia to many chinese katana seller sites, but never found the things shown there in reputable books or documentation. 

For me (and if someone want to correct me i would be happy) i think most of the shown things are not valid information.

Maru and Kobuse are ok.

Makuri was called the method that was used at yasukuni for example but it is just another way to create a kobuse construction.

"Wariha Tetsu" i would call it a 2 piece costruction that is sometimes encountered in Tanto.

The other things are in my opinion very unlikely to be really used to make Nihonto.

[Stephen]

I looked for the poster Hawley put out years ago. I remember the 5-7 plates forge...if not the same chart...do a search on your own.

[Stephen]

Something like this

[DoTanuki yokai]

This is also very different in the use of soft and medium steel types.

It seems more logical to me but i wouldnt trust it and i dont know what are the sources of this knowledge.

https://youtu.be/f7z9pkQnz_0?t=634 honsanmai was a thing i forgot.

 

 

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Lately I have been looking at more of Gassan Sadakatsu's tantos online. Many of them come with their original display boxes like the examples above. Many also have a hakogaki stating that the Soshu Kamakura Masamune process was used, but the actual hada of the blades varies from "Matsukawa-ish" right thru to tight koitame/masame. I haven't yet come across a blade with this hakogaki that is actually pure masame. I am beginning to think this phrase doesn't refer to a specific type of hada, but is actually just a catch-all phrase for any blade that isn't ayasugi.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another one, this time with the more classic Soshu style Hada:

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/tanto-gassan-sadakatsu/

 

 

[David Flynn]

Not classic "Soshu" Hada per se.   More it's a copy of Norishige.

[Bryce]

Thanks John,

That is at one extreme of what Gassan Sadakatsu was calling "Soshu Kamakura Masamune" and the koitame example I posted above is at the other extreme. As David says it does seem to be a copy of Norishige's matsukawa hada, but I haven't come across an example of Gassan Sadakatsu actually calling it that himself yet. Below is another shot showing the hada of the tanto John posted.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I found an example on the net that is pure masame like mine, but still has the "Soshu Kamakura Masamune" hakogaki on the box. This confirms that this description really is a marketing "catch-all" for any blade that isn't done in ayasugi.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[David Flynn]

Bryce, I don't believe this to be "Pure Masame",  as the Jihada is Ko Itame.  I believe what you see as Masame, is actually Hataraki.

[Bryce]

G'day David,

The masame is more obvious in this photo.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Bryce]

By an odd coincidence, AOIJapan have just listed this exact same sword, complete with box and hakogaki.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Beautiful sword, the price is quite reduced as well.

[Kiipu]

On 3/15/2022 at 2:10 PM, Bryce said:

Nobody has a copy of Nippon Toh?

 

Found this one at Grey's website.

B886. Nippon Toh

[Jacques]

On 3/25/2022 at 9:05 PM, Surfson said:

I do love ayasugi hada.  I have a tanto with that grain as well as a Dewa Gassan blade.  It's an amazing technique.

 

 

Not that difficult to do, the sunobe is twisted before being shaped.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Tanto by Gassan Sadakatsu are often found in their original boxes complete with hakogaki. It is much rarer to find his long blades still in their original box. Here is an example still in the box, with hakogaki by Sadakatsu attesting that it was made using Masamune's secret process. Even better is the fact that the original type 94 shin gunto koshirae is still with it. When someone ordered a blade and koshirae from Gassan Sadakatsu, this is how they would have received it. It is dated May 1938.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[lonely panet]

Me want

[Bruce Pennington]

Just eye-balling the blade to fittings, isn't this at least a waki?

[Toryu2020]

Exceptional grouping Bryce.

-tch

[Bryce]

G'day Bruce,

I am not sure I follow you? The nagasa is 68.5cm.

Cheers,

Bryce

[Apercus]

Twisting the sunobe does not produce ayasugi hada. It’s usually created by cutting, filing, or grinding groves in both sides of an oversized bar while alternating the locations between sides. The groves would be deepest at the edge and more shallow towards the mune. The bar would then be forged flat into the sunobe. It’s a common technique used be knife makers today. Twisting a bar produces a very different effect that looks nothing like ayasugi hada.

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Bryce said:

G'day Bruce,

I am not sure I follow you? The nagasa is 68.5cm.

Cheers,

Bryce

Dang, I see what happened.  You opened your post with the word "Tanto" and I rushed off from there.  Sorry!!!

[Bryce]

No worries Bruce.

The fittings are all similarly marked, but I think it is more than just a number. The tsuba has the Suya Shoten stamp. I am sure I have seen an ink stamp on the tsuka like this before, but don't know where. Anyone have any ideas?

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Bryce]

On a Japanese auction site I found an almost identical set of koshirae, that was sold as being from a Gassan Sadakatsu blade. The tsuba on this set also had the Suya Shoten stamp. The fittings all had similar markings which appear to be 月山 3. I guess the markings on mine are similar but the 月山 has been shortened to just 月. I am not sure what the last kanji stands for. I wonder if Suya Shoten were Gassan Sadakatsu's koshirae supplier of choice?

Cheers,

Bryce

[Bryce]

That last kanji may be 

特

special?

Cheers,

Bryce

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Bryce, the ink on the Tsuka is usually related to the type of Mon.

[Bryce]

Thanks John,

It has a maru ni tachibana mon. I guess that first kanji could be tachibana?

Cheers,

Bryce