Norisuke and Norishige Joint signed tsuba

[Curran]

I traded for this tsuba 2 years ago and sent it for NBTHK papers last summer. It just came back with Toku Hozon papers and a letter from Tanobe-san. I haven't had much to add to this community of late, so figured I would share this.

 

Background: As can be read in Art & Sword #3 or other tsuba texts, 1st Gen and 2nd Gen Norisuke were skilled artisans employed by the Owari Tokugawa. They were especially known as master forgers of Yagyu, Yamakichibei, and other types of tsubas- though they often signed them. Though prolific, they almost never co-signed a tsuba. Quality varied, as they had some master works and then some rather straightforward tsuba.

 

This design pictured is considered the last or near last to be by Niwa Norisuke (1st gen). It can be seen in the Norisuke Tusba book as well as the Owari Tsuba book. On the reverse, it is dated late in 1850. He supposedly died April 17th, 1852. I am sorry that I cannot post an image of that tsuba at present, but it is near identical in execution.

 

Iwata Norisuke (2nd gen) is known to have used 'Norishige' as early as 1849 in correspondence and there is a tsuba signed by him as Norishige. He took over as master in December of 1851. The tsuba I have is more in the handwork of Iwata Norisuke (2nd Gen), but is signed on the front by Niwa Norisuke and on the back by 'Norishige' (aka. Niwa Norisuke). Unable to find any evidence of joint signed pieces, I didn't know if it would paper. I wondered who would forge the work of two master forgers!?

 

My best guess is that it was made some time during 1851 before Iwata Norisuke took over as master. Perhapse it was done by Iwata Norisuke to assist Niwa Norisuke in the completeing of a commission? Just a guess. Tanobe-san says there is record of other joint signed tsuba by Niwa and Iwata Norisuke, but that this is the only photographed one.

 

It was a fun tsuba to research. I am not able to actively collect at present, but this tsuba was quite an adventure. I hope others get to stumble across a challenging one now and then.

 

Curran

[Curran]

Hmm, I thought I'd made the photos small enough they didn't need to be clicked on to be viewed.

What are the size constraints Brian?

[Brian]

Curran,

Great tsuba and fantastic result. Congrats!

I remember when you mentioned this one back in viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2856

Max width before having to click is 800 pix wide..but I'll resize these and re-upload in a few minutes. Thanks for sharing!

 

Brian

[Curran]

Dear Brian,

 

Thanks for the photo help.

Reading my old post from August reminded me that the one Japanese gentleman had argued the Niwa Norisuke signature was a forgery by Iwata Norisuke.

 

I felt it was real, but had slight variations from those given for Niwa Norisuke in the Owari ToSando no Tsuba book. Really an interesting papering dilemma if Iwata Norisuke forged his teacher's signature!

_______________________________________________________

 

I still think it a bit odd what the NBTHK does at Hozon level these days. I sent a Higo tsuba that had attributes of two Higo sub schools. Someone later successfully convinced me was mid to c.1800 Nishigaki. It came back as "Higo". Well duh!?!.

There is also a tsuba up for auction now with Hozon papers to 'Kanayama Den'. Wow that is vague... either it is "Kanayama or Kanayama like". With the yen so strong, it has gotten very expensive for even Hozon papers. The increasing number of vague attributions is off putting. Toku Hozon was always expensive and this Norisuke Norishige co-signed was definitely my last Toku Hozon submit for a while. Not sure I would dare submit anything unsigned to Hozon if the attributions are so vague these days.

 

It was a fun tsuba to research. Lots of back and forth on whether the Niwa Norisuke signature was correct.

 

Curran

[Mantis dude]

Curran,

 

There are certain tsuba that just stand out a bit more than others and I must say I like this one even if it is missing the most important ingredient (a mantis). Interesting results, glad you went for it. I think the general statements are just the reflection that it is really hard to nail down fittings and they are being cautious. The pendulum swings I am sure and it has swung to conservative. It may take market forces like you just expressed, not sending anymore. Maybe for them to realize people want more information will take a reduction in submissions to wake up the judges to the peoples wants. Than again, these are guesses, albeit educated guesses and I don't blame them for being conservative with stamping their name on it.

 

Congrats anyway.

[Curran]

Mantis,

 

I did not mean to sound too harsh on the NBTHK shinsa process.

 

I love Nihonto as a hobby, but the times being what they are I have become very sensitive to expense and even been selling tsuba I would much rather keep and may never be able to get back. NBTHK Hozon seem painfully vague except to verify signatures. I regret taking an overly hard knock at them.

 

This Norisuke - Norishige was my last discovery. As the wallet closed, I've since had to watch some very nice tsuba go past. I hope some others of the community find them and can pick them up.

 

Curran