Second try on a sword, request for input

[dhammer_911]

So I learned something with my first sword, and we are off to shinsa to confirm the old papers.  I'm not too sad about it for the price point.  It is an old, bad-ass sword.  With that said, I really wanted to have something that was top notch for my collection.  I've accordingly decided to upgrade.  I am torn between two Wakizashis.  The first is by Yoshimitsu Hori.  It doesn't have any papers apparently, but its authenticity seems straightforward, in part because the particular sword is documented in a historical book.  It is a beautiful piece, and I think we all know the quality we're talking about.  On the other hand is a mumei (identified as Den Kaneshige) with juyo papers.  It is a masterpiece and apparently a fairly rare item.  They are about the same price.  There's one other juyo katana I'm looking at only because it's just another $5k or so from where I'm at.  However, it doesn't really speak to me other than liking the bigger sword generally, and there's nothing particular that stands out in its history or presentation.  

I sure would appreciate any thoughts before I dive in again and make the wrong decision.  I'm really, really torn because either of these blades really speak to something special about why I'm doing all this.  

[Brian]

Generally, the advise is always for investment....don't go for a wakizashi.
Katana makes a HUGE difference.

[Mark S.]

I wasn’t going to ask in the last post, but I will ask it here.  Why the hurry?  Why not take some time, study a bit more, and get more comfortable with your purchases?  While I’m sure no one minds helping, you seem to be completely relying on the Board to help you make quick purchases.  And it seems you are rushing into blades you are unsure of or don’t speak to you other than you just ‘want one’.  There will always be blades for sale.  Why not spend a little more time figuring out what you want and why?  The only thing worse than buying a blade you aren’t sure about is buying one you completely regret buying.

[dhammer_911]

All very good advice.  I will probably take some time to consider.  Thanks again.

[Alex A]

Best part of the hobby, looking for and learning about stuff, better than ownership for me.

 

Always going to be something of interest about and your views will often change.

[WillFalstaff]

dhammer_911 - I’m just finishing “Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords: A Collector’s Guide”, by Nobuo Nakahara (trans. by Paul Martin). In the past two months I’ve read and studied other recommended books (6 all together), and spent hours and hours on here and other sites to get the fundamentals set into memory. I practiced kantei based on my studies, as well as on Markus Sesko’s online guide, on the one Wakizashi I have in good polish. I am at the beginning stage of all this (compared to the veterans with decades of knowledge, Token Kai meetings, and handling experience on me).

 

So far, I’ve gotten the most out of Nakahara’s book. It’s an incisive look into how you should judge nihonto either for studying or buying, and almost every page answered lingering questions the other sources did not answer. Plus, Nakahara’s personality bleeds through the text making the read fun. 

 

It’s a quick book, I’ve gotten through most of it in the last 2 days, but I now look at nihonto a very different way and understand the key points I’ve struggled with.

 

If you haven’t already pick the book up if you are going to be doling out some serious cash. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Facts-Fundamentals-Japanese-Swords-Collectors/dp/1568365837/ref=sr_1_1?crid=WJGC6UM7GVMZ&keywords=facts+and+fundamentals+of+Japanese+swords+a+collector's+guide&qid=1645467161&sprefix=facts+and+funda%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-1

[FZ1]

 

As another new starter, I agree that Facts & Fundamentals is by far the most readable of the recommended reading list.   I think I paid £27 ($37) second hand from Abe books for mine.

 

2 hours ago, WillFalstaff said:

Nakahara’s personality bleeds through the text making the read fun. 

 

The "ranty" bits where he's grinding his axes do indeed liven it up! 

 

Jon

 

 

[sabiji]

dhammer, 
I have a question: what do you think makes the above DEN Kaneshige a masterpiece? The name? The juyo?

 

I think this is Kinju, one of the founding fathers of Mino-Den, along with Shizu Saburo Kaneuji.

If you take a closer look at Kinju, you will quickly notice how much works attributed to him can differ in style - quite contrary to what you read about him in books. 

There are very few signed tanto and only one surviving tachi with a ni ji mei from him, the vast majority is o-suriage and mumei, so the attributions to Kinju are only opinions. 

As mentioned above, the characteristics of his blades can vary greatly. Some are in line with the mid-Nanbokucho style influenced by Soshu-Den, while others are much closer to Ur-Soshu, especially Soshu Yukimitsu.

 

So there is the possibility of several generations, but at least 2 generations. But the NBTHK does not differentiate, because too little is known so far. And what about his disciples? Kinju is considered to be the founder of the Mino-Seki school, but unlike Kaneuji, there is no "student drawer" like Naoe-Shizu. The subject of Kinju/Kaneshige is still relatively unexplored.

 

So why, in this context, are you so interested in the Den-Kaneshige you mentioned?

 

What do I want to achieve with my babbling?

 

What difference does it make to buy a sword for 2.5K on Ebay or 30K with Juyo from a dealer? Both are primarily metal swords, and only what others say about them makes the difference in price. Of course, the Kinju will be of better quality than a Gimei Shinshinto sword, but is just knowing that worth the money to you?

 

Everyone collects for different reasons. But if you want to enjoy an excellent sword, you must first learn to see it, read it, and understand it. 

 

This way, this is our hobby.

 

Where this path takes you, how this path develops and how you develop is up to you.

 

It is better and smarter to study masterpieces with collectors who are happy to share their knowledge. You don't have to buy just for the sake of owning to belong. 

 

It is hard to understand it now, but eventually you will realize. And when you understand it, there is nothing better than purposefully searching for, buying and appreciating your sword.

 

Not everyone has to share your taste, but you can justify your choice and the quality will be beyond question.