Gunto Tsuka with no retaining button notch?

[MHC]

Hello all,

 

The Tsuka on my Frankin Gunto has no retaining release button notch, so what type of retention might this sword/Tsuka had originally?

 

All of the fittings parts-n-pieces, are a jumbled conglomeration. Tsuba is pierced and has a release tang hole that is on centerline. The 2 large copper Seppas have the release tang hole lower than centerline. Of the remaining Seppas, some have holes, some are on centerline, some not at all. The Fuchi has a release button hole, but nothing on the Tsuka {as seen in the photo}. The Saya has a release catch pocket and collar, but is lower than centerline {matches copper Seppas}.

The strangest fact that is bewildering, is the fact that the Tsuka and the Saya fit the Nakago and the blade very precisely, maybe just dumb luck? War time repairs?

 

Therefore it is hard to figure out the original configuration, maybe impossible.

 

I would almost like to reconfigure the sword so that it is properly complete, but just don't know how I should approach it or even if I should bother???

 

Mark

 

 

[Lareon]

With all those Seppa you could make the nakago fit the tsuka easily. Just keep adding them till the hole lines up. Same with the saya fit.

 

I have one similar to this. It's a jumble of parts and clearly put together to fit an older blade (in my case). Has tsuba with a piercing hole and then the dai Seppa have none, the fuchi also has no retaining clip or button in it and is too large for the tsuka.

In my case I think a post war put together. 

Who knows though what went on in the war when times were tough. If you could get something to work then maybe that was good enough.

 

[MHC]

Hello Tony,

 

Right now the entire stack-up of parts and pieces fit perfectly, all real tight. The Tsuka slides onto the Nakago perfectly, nice and tight, no wiggle at all & the Ana hole lines up perfectly, all without any Seppa's. The Saya also fits the blade perfectly.

 

When all is assembled, everything locks up good-n-tight, and the Habaki firmly holds the blade into the Saya, without any seating pressure needed, just a nice tight slip fit (almost "clicks" into place).

 

I would expect if it was a war time, in the field repair, to not be such a precise fit, but maybe I'm underestimating the field skills during the war? Maybe it is just blind luck everything fits?

 

Mark

[PNSSHOGUN]

Luck it all fits is likely, that Tsuka would've originally had a leather retention strap. The Saya is likely original if the blade is a good fit, and everything else added later. You could sell the nice Sukashi Tsuba and find a Tsuba/Fuchi set with the 11 o'clock lock position & carve a channel in the Tsuka you have.

[george trotter]

12 hours ago, MHC said:

 

I would expect if it was a war time, in the field repair, to not be such a precise fit, but maybe I'm underestimating the field skills during the war? Maybe it is just blind luck everything fits?

 

Mark, I have a very good RJT blade that has undergone a field repair. It is mixed new and re-used hilt/tsuba/seppa and has a new peg hole etc and all a perfect fit. I think the field repair units were all professional smiths, polishers, mounters and binders etc...these were set up in 1936 by Kurihara Hikosaburo Akihide. They consisted of 20 professionals and served "on the spot" for 6 month sessions and I think probably yours, and mine, are products of field repair. In my case, although the parts are "mismatched" they have been together so long (since 1944-45) that they all share a darkened age patina and when I dis-assemble the parts I can see that they have been together since the war...not a modern post-war mix of parts.

I strongly feel mine is a field repair example...maybe yours IS too?

PS, mine was a 'non-clip' locking sword so the fuchi and saya-guchi have no clip holes, but the wooden hilt does and so does the tsuba, but they don't line up with each other, so hilt and tsuba are from a recycle bin. 4 seppa are new replacements (very thin pressed types) and one seppa with clip hole was added to get the assembly tight - probably the original had 6/8 thicker decorated edge seppa and maybe a thicker tsuba, but the different length replacement hilt (longer) meant they had to "thin down" the tsuba/seppa stack to make the new hilt 'snug' on the tang. All replacement parts lock in very well. Whoever replaced the original damaged tsuba/seppa and hilt re-used the original fuchi/kashira as they match those on the saya....very good work. .I presume the original owner would have intended to get his sword properly re-mounted when he got home on leave (but never did). Worth keeping with the blade as an example of field repair history IMHO.

Regards,

The photo shows a field repair unit in Shanghai c. 1937. That is Akihide standing at rear 3rd from right.

. So...

[Stephen]

Very cool pic George, one i haven't seen before. Thanks for sharing.

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, george trotter said:

field repair unit 

 

 

 

Here is what 成瀬関次 wrote in his book 實戰刀譚
外装の毀損最も多かりしは柄の部位にして、柄の折損、柄糸の摩滅、目釘穴を中心とする諸故障は其の数修理全部の七割に達し、柄の如何に大切なるかを切実に感ぜしめたり。
The most common damage of the fitting is the handle,  such as broken handle, wear of handle wrap, and ana has reached 70% of all repairs.

今野昭宗(Left)was in 栗原修理団 Akihide's repair team, he later work under 成瀬関次(Right).

 

 

 

[george trotter]

Interesting Trystan...yes, my damage seems to have been to hilt area...it still has its original scabbard and hilt metal parts, but the wooden hilt is re-used from another sword.

As I said mine has had its original fuchi-kashira re-used and a new hole drilled in the wood hilt (not the tang) and a re-used tsuba put on with 4 pressed/thin/brass seppa. I am presuming that the original 6-8 thick seppa and tsuba were either damaged and replaced, or the "new" hilt was a bit longer than the original and to make it fit tight, the 6-8  thick seppa and tuba had to be replaced by fewer, thinner seppa and tsuba.

BUT, after fitting and drilling a new peg hole in the hilt wood, it is a very strong tight fit...typical IMHO of upper class field unit work.I am just lucky that mine is 'age patinated' so I can be sure the parts have all been together for 70+ years, it hasn't been cobbled together in recent years by a collector/dealer....a lot harder to tell if all parts are in good clean condition.

 

So, if everything fits well with Mark's hilt, there is a good chance it is field repaired.

 

Stephen san, yes, a good picture of a field repair unit (with the guy who established them)...it is in Kapp & Yoshihara, Mod. Japanese Swords & S/smiths...page 57. They say that Akihide's team repaired 1000 swords for the Marines and 1600 for the army in their 6 month session in Shanghai...amazing...wonder why we don't see them more often?...or have we been unthikingly not recognising a repaired sword as history, but just as a 'dodgy' parts - mix sword that WE have to IMPROVE!

Regards,

 

PS...just adding these two pics to show Mark how old/patinated/untouched my sword is...hasn't been touched for 70 years.