bugman9 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 im new so not sure im posting in the right place or not... i recently aquired a sword given to me by a friend who found it in the basement of a old house he bought along with some old Japanese vases... took it to the college nearby to try researching it & there was an old Japanese man reading... he ask me if he could look at it... anyhow he looked at a while and said it might be shinto from 1500 to 1600, whatever shinto means... any input would be apreciated... Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 The age could be 1500-1600, but, that would make it Muromachi koto. It really is in such a shape that not much else can be gleaned via IT pics. John Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 bugman9 said: whatever shinto means... koto period = old sword period (1185-1596) a) muromachi = (1396-1568) shinto period = new sword period (1596 - 1780) shinshinto = new new sword period ( 1780-1877) Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 Please have it polished by a certified polisher of Japanese swords. KM Quote
bugman9 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Posted March 11, 2009 correct me if im wrong, but i thought all Japanese swords had ray skin or something like that underneath the handle wrapings... is the sword worth polishing and is there a polisher that can be trusted to return me sword and would polish it the right way ? who would have been the maker of the sword if it is muromachi koto ? Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Not all swords have rayskin under the wrap. The mounts on your sword are lower quality and no rayskin was used. It isn't possible for any of us to tell you who made the sword without having it in hand, and even then probably not. What is the length of the cutting edge? If less than 24" it is an unsigned wakizashi in low end mounts, which doesn't point to anything great. Of course, any level of blade can be found in any level of mounts so you can't automatically assume the blade isn't worth a polish just from the mounts, but chances are not in its favor. I think you should put a very light coat of good machine oil on the polished portion (not the tang) of the blade, and otherwise let it be for now. If you're going to get serious about Japanese swords, in a few years after you learn much more, you can decide whether or not to get it polished. If you aren't going to get serious there's no reason to spend a couple thousand dollars on a polish you won't appreciate. Grey Quote
bugman9 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Posted March 11, 2009 yes, i am planning on collecting Japanese swords as funds permits... been doing lots of reading on them the past 2 weeks just getting started learning a little bit about the ways they are made so far... i have a lot more studying & learning to do to make sure my money goes into a good old sword... wish they was some shows or something to where i could see up close some Japanese swords in full polish with my own eyes... that would help a lot i think... i have seen some swords at gun shows here that just looks similar to a samurai sword but all have a # or something stamped on the tang and a lock on the thing ya have to push to unsheath it, ww2 i think... Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 bugman9 said: i have a lot more studying & learning to do to make sure my money goes into a good old sword... wish they was some shows or something to where i could see up close some Japanese swords in full polish with my own eyes... that would help a lot i think... yes, 'good old sword' are the key words when it comes to deciding whether or not any piece is worthy of being polished, continue the learning process. Also, keep in mind that it is just as essential to carefully choose a good polisher as it is to pick a good sword for polish. There are any number of sword shows to attend depending upon your location. Attending a show is almost a must for anyone serious about becoming a nihonto collector. You'll find a sword care article here http://www.jssus.org/ Quote
bugman9 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Posted March 13, 2009 update... the sword is going to a polisher soo ?n as i find one... any recomendations ? i showed the sword to a Japanese kendo instructor in dallas, he took it apart, looked at for a good while at every angle imaginable, even looked in some places with a magnifying glass, put it back in the saya then gave it back to me... he had a long pause then told me it was muramachi koto sword and that it was in dire need of polishing and said not to do anything to it at all other than a very light coat of clove oil on the blade... he couldnt tell me who might have made it though... and i thought it was just a junk sword... Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 hi, sending any blade to be polished without first establishing an accurate kantei, especially the quality of the blade, is putting the cart before the horse, sort of speak. If need be have a polisher open a window and then seek further opinions, or even better submit it to a shinsa the next time one comes within reasonable distance. Any decent polisher can open a window. Take things one step at a time. Quote
Jacques Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Hi, Can you give us the measurements of this blade? For what i can see (or perceive) it seems being Bizen. Is the hamon clearly visible? Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Bugman This is what you're up against. This sword might be Koto, likely late Koto rather than early or mid Koto. This was a time of constant warfare in Japan, a time when there was great need for lots of weaponry. Swords were made by the bucketful; some of them were great pieces by great smiths but the majority weren't. If you get this polished and find out later that it is one of the mass produced blades of late Koto times, especially if it is a wakizashi and being unsigned, it will be worth much less than what you paid to have it polished and all you will have learned is to be more careful with your money next time. You need to have a better idea of its value, monetary and artistic, before you decide to throw money at it. A Kendo instructor isn't necessarily an authority on sword quality; he might know what he's talking about or he might know next to nothing. Show it to someone better able to advise you, a polisher at a Japanese sword show for example, before going further. Grey Quote
Brian Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 nagamaki said: Any decent polisher can open a window Just had a chuckle thinking how odd that might sound to a complete novice :lol: Sometimes we have our own language. Just for those who don't know it..a window is when a polisher polishes just a small part of the blade to examine the hamon and hada to see if the blade features warrant further polishing. Being able to see the hamon and hada allow you to get an idea of what type of sword you have and if a polish will do it justice. Not all swords warrant a few $1000 worth of restoration unless you have excess money that you don't need. Brian Quote
bugman9 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Posted March 13, 2009 where would i find a sword show around kilgore texas area ? dallas, houston, austin ? point taken... ill have a window ( small section ) polished first just to be sure if it is worth a full polish or not... to answer earlier question, the hammon is clearly visible and the blade is 55.60cm in length not counting the tang...sori is 2cm, nakago length is 14.73cm in length... blade width at machi is 5cm, yokote 4cm... these measurements may be a tiny bit off as all i had to measure was a yard stick ruller... this sword learning is very interesting... i know a katana is longer than a wakizashi but how do you know the diference between a wakizashi and a katana and what measurements determine the difference ? Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Katana start at 2 shaku from the tip back to the notch at the back in a straight line. 2 shaku = 23.86" or 60.60cm. This measurement is called nagasa in Japanese. Grey Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 The major sword shows are in Florida (February), Chicago (coming up soon May or June???), and San Francisco (August), which means having to travel. Not sure about what events take place in Tx. bugman9 said: i know a katana is longer than a wakizashi but how do you know the diference between a wakizashi and a katana and what measurements determine the difference ? Your sword is considered a long wakizashi at 21. 8 ", a Katana = 24" + . Keep in mind that the cost of a good polisher is up around $90 to $100 per inch, which means your unsigned sword would have to be a significant piece to rationalize the expense. Don't forget a new habaki and shirasaya too, another minimum of $800 gone. While there is a certain romance and excitement involved in discovering a hidden treasure and seeing it thru to full restoration, not to mention the learning experience, there is the economic reality to be carefully considered. Quote
bugman9 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Posted March 14, 2009 got some books today on Japanese swords... learning & more learning... i dont think theres an end to it soon... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.