Great Finds on Ebay

[Tom Darling]

Can anyone add to this list of Great Swords found on E Bay?  Besides Norishige a Kotetsu was (also) acquired many years ago.  

[Bazza]

I seem to recall  a shumei RAI KUNIMITSU or KUNITOSHI that made some USD 12K or thereabouts. Went JUYOU in Japan as I recall.

 

BaZZa.

[Utopianarian]

Chu Aoe signed Katana in process of polish then submission- Posted here maybe 2 yrs ago and recently (Promising but who knows but worth the gamble for $1800 eBay made offer to seller)

Soden Bizen Tachi over 3 yrs ago was worth a shot for $2200 ebay auction- once again waiting to paper.

Both blades were in WW2 Gunto fittings. Aoe was in leather covered Gunto saya with  civilian tsuba and Tsuka pretty much destroyed owner made amateur attempt to wrap and then squeezed habaki onto blade with appeared to be pliers(beautiful pattern was engraved in Habaki😔). The Soden Bizen was in very good condition type 98 Gunto fittings with Silver Family Mon crest. Blade needed finish polish.

Will post in the future if they paper if anyone cares to know 🤞

 

[Bazza]

A further point for discussion:

 

George wrote;

>  Blade needed finish polish.

From my life's experience I opine there is NO such a thing as a 'finish polish', believing I understand what George means by this.  Not even the occasionally vaunted 'needs finger stones only' stands up to scrutiny.

 

OBSERVATION 1

Maybe 20 years ago a friend showed around his 'as found' near mint katana in impeccable polish, so much so most collectors looking at it might say it didn't need a polish.  A polisher visiting from Japan was at the gathering and observed "Hmmm, the polish is fading - I would start on the second stone."  No such thing as a finish polish here.

 

OBSERVATION 2

A Togishi told me he had never polished a sword that he didn't need to first straighten before beginning the work.  But that's an aside.  A sword that may be thought to only need a 'finish polish' in the hands of a togishi may in fact first need shitaji, a foundation polish where the 'shape' needs re-setting due to past errors in polish.  These can be very subtle and need the trained eyes of a properly qualified togishi to make the call.  After shitajii comes the shiage, the finish polish.  etc etc etc

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

 

[Utopianarian]

Bazza Thank you, I stand corrected

[Gakusee]

Well, the one which is the best I know of belongs to a friend and NMB member - out-of-polish Awataguchi Yoshimitsu which subsequently polished beautifully and papered to Juyo. 

[drbvac]

I did buy an unpapered Naginata on ebay a fairly long time ago for less than 2000 that I am sure is a valid signature for Higo Dotanuki Matahachi - 1580's.  Not a Juyo blade and still not papered but no re-polish and pretty impressive and at 1800 bucks - a bargain !!

[Toryu2020]

Nice Dotanuki.

[Bruce Pennington]

Not a nihonto, but a "great find on ebay" still.  Wife bought me a gorgeous one-handed kyugunto, with tassel by Naohiro.  One of only 3 known smiths with stamped mei:

 

[DTM72]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

 Wife bought me...

Waiting for the day my wife does something like this. You got a keeper Bruce!

 

I just picked-up my first Kyugunto, but it has a mumei koto blade.

[Gakusee]

I think this one was in the same haul of great tanto or similarly unpolished state, from memory....https://yuhindo.com/hosho-sadaoki-tanto/

[Surfson]

You are correct Michael.  I was going to bid on it but my polisher didn't like the shape!

[Surfson]

I have picked up many great swords on ebay over the years.  It has pretty much dried up though in the last 4-5 years.  

[Bruno]

I remember this lucky member who bought what at first glance, on the poor photos appeared to be a chinese repro sword in civilian mounts. He paied it maybe $100.

 

It turned out it was a shinsakuto mounted in cheap iai mounts, hence the chinese repro look.

 

To me the member who did the best buy of all time here.

[waljamada]

Would love to hear about the great finds too...hope more stories/examples come out of the woodwork.

 

I bought the vast majority of my blades off ebay and I consider myself to have done well with the blades and what I paid.  So I had some "great to me" finds but nothing that would make a dent in the Nihonto world at large which is the kinds of stories I believe you're looking for. 

 

I'd even love to hear some garage sale great finds.  I would wager most of those tales would come from the 60's, 70's and 80's with a substantial taper down throughout the 90's and finally into the near nothings in the 2000's. 

 

Always described ebay as the world's largest garage sale and I actually would find those stories even more intriguing as it'sso very public, open to so many other knowledgeable buyers; if you got one that way, even more power to you!  

[Ken-Hawaii]

I've bought a number of blades on eBay that have papered, but my favorite is a $325 Kagemitsu, that is already at TH.

[Gakusee]

4 hours ago, Ken-Hawaii said:

I've bought a number of blades on eBay that have papered, but my favorite is a $325 Kagemitsu, that is already at TH.

Ken, was that Osafune Kagemitsu?such a find is exceptional and congrats 

[PNSSHOGUN]

For those posting their finds, can we please have pictures!?

[lonely panet]

On 2/10/2022 at 8:47 PM, Bazza said:

A further point for discussion:

 

George wrote;

>  Blade needed finish polish.

From my life's experience I opine there is NO such a thing as a 'finish polish', believing I understand what George means by this.  Not even the occasionally vaunted 'needs finger stones only' stands up to scrutiny.

 

OBSERVATION 1

Maybe 20 years ago a friend showed around his 'as found' near mint katana in impeccable polish, so much so most collectors looking at it might say it didn't need a polish.  A polisher visiting from Japan was at the gathering and observed "Hmmm, the polish is fading - I would start on the second stone."  No such thing as a finish polish here.

 

OBSERVATION 2

A Togishi told me he had never polished a sword that he didn't need to first straighten before beginning the work.  But that's an aside.  A sword that may be thought to only need a 'finish polish' in the hands of a togishi may in fact first need shitaji, a foundation polish where the 'shape' needs re-setting due to past errors in polish.  These can be very subtle and need the trained eyes of a properly qualified togishi to make the call.  After shitajii comes the shiage, the finish polish.  etc etc etc

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

 

words for the welcome.

 

Barry always adds to the conversation with insight and wisdom

[ChrisW]

Please see my response to your other post in the "Komonjo" topic. Amateur restoration is a terrible idea.

[waljamada]

Here's a few of my ebay blade finds, two hozons (A Koto Fuyuhiro and Sue Tegai) and a toku hozon (super long mei: Bitchu no Kuni Matsuyama ju Akamatsu Kotobuki Minamoto Ujisada Saku Feb 1864) included.  Also not pictured is a hozon Kashu Iehira, a Koa Isshin Mantetsu and some others.  No national treasures, just personal ones.  Wish I could add to the great discoveries list, perhaps one day.

[PNSSHOGUN]

2 hours ago, DickH said:

I have bought many good blades on eBay. Here is one of my recent diamonds in the rough pick ups. Some intense grinding and it should shine again:

 

https://player.vimeo.com/video/684941477?h=eab80691b0&badge=0&autopause=0&player_id=0&app_id=58479

 

 

 

It would be a miracle to retrieve anything of value from that. Big hakobore, massive pitting, weak grain.....at best you will have a long toothpick.

[waljamada]

DickH, this is just a general heads up and explanation for resistance you will feel about a project like yours.  This is the wrong place for discussing such a project because the consensus here amongst scholars and collectors is that any nihonto should not be addressed/polished by non-professionals and this is held for a huge variety of reasons.  

 

There is an art to polishing hence using formally trained togishi (which takes years and years) and this art of polishing would never include grinding for example.   Nihonto are not the same as working on mill steel swords which I'm sure you know and this standard is one to preserve and give utmost respect to the art, craft, culture of nihonto and health of the history in each blade.  It is not personal towards you but actions against those specific notions in nihonto.  

[waljamada]

DickH, found a nice little article that briefly mentions becoming a togishi (up to 10 years training, its a serious endeavor) and goes into traditional Japanese blade polishing.   

 

https://www.japanaccents.com/swords/Japanese-sword-polishing

 

Will give you a bit of info on how it is done which is very intricate.  It's not about economics but simply very specific knowledge, skills, techniques and hard earned experience in traditional nihonto passed down from generations of dedicated artisans.  It really is very different than polishing a mill steel blade and the nihonto community wishes to see the blades handled the best way possible. It's also not personal towards your friends abilities or a professional/hobby bias; but an important protective goal in the nihonto field/community for these historical/art nihonto pieces.  

 

 

[ChrisW]

1 hour ago, DickH said:

 

Dear Chris,

 

I can assure you that I do fully understand that such a fine sword like the above deserves to be handled only by some of the best craftman available in order to ensure a proper restoration. My friends are all very fine people who can grind very well. I am sure that in the end the sword will be very shiny and sharp again!

 

No worries!

 

You've missed the point. Its not about being 'shiny' again. A proper togishi knows how the geometry of a blade should be, with respect to its school and smith. An amateur polish can destroy this delicate geometry and bring the blade closer to 'tiredness' and therefore what is essentially death. An amateur doesn't know how to avoid common pitfalls with a blade as well as a properly trained togishi. If your friend has undergone the apprenticeship and knows all this critical information, then its fine. But I am gathering that isn't the case and something like this should be avoided.

Also, a blade being shiny and sharp is one in the same if the process is done by traditional means. Nontraditional means do not necessarily have this in mind and first seek to do 'sharp' then 'shiny' which is not what you want with a Japanese sword.

To explain further: due to how Nihonto are not mono-steel, they have a finite number of polishes before the soft inner (core) steel is exposed. Once this happens, the blade is structurally compromised and has lost value as both an art piece and for martial purposes. It reduces the value in the eyes of collectors as well. Now, I am not saying this blade here you spoke of is a national treasure. But this is a slippery slope once you start thinking its okay to do so. Even if you don't, others will look at it and think it is okay for them to do so or to take it a step further.


Is your friend traditionally trained by a togishi? If so, then no worries. If not, then there's a problem here.

[ChrisW]

If he's traditionally trained by a togishi and does sashikomi, then no problem! (Though there's no problem with hadori/kesho either, depends on the blade I've been told.) And a shame your blade there is tired! I am sure it was quite a looker when forged.

By the way, what is that white haze in the horimono? Oxidation?

[Brian]

Because the list of qualified people in the West is less than a handful, and none of them would take on this project. Plus the fact that you use the word "grinding" which has no place EVER in the world of Nihonto. Plus this sword is beyond saving. It can't be saved. It's dead.

[Brian]

I have very big hands. Huge.
None of those mentioned are polishing this sword. People like Ted Tenold and Bob and some others on your list are recommended by the forum, they have been vetted by numerous Japanese sources and are capable.
Again, confirm that you are spending the money to have this full polished by a professional? And which of the above you are having polish it and accepted it as a worthwhile project?

[waljamada]

DickH, no need to feel you have to defend yourself personally.  Like I said it's not personal and this discussion has been done a hundred times over on these forums.  The stance is to protect blades from people attempting polishes that destroy a blades potential future preservation.  The guys who have been around long enough have seen many blades ruined by such attempts, and that hurts the nihonto heart. 

 

Furthermore, in the theme of the post topic, if a true treasure is found on ebay it's critical they go into the right hands for polishing/preservation.

 

If im being open, I personally feel If you know people who can bring that specific sword back to life with a solid degree of quality and go through the effort/expense then I can understand that.  I agree it would otherwise most likely be in a sad state for the rest of its life.  But like I wrote, it's not personal and posts on amateur/hobbyists polishing nihonto will get resistance for good reasons.  It was just a heads up.

[Baba Yaga]

22 minutes ago, waljamada said:

 The stance is to protect blades from people attempting polishes that destroy a blades potential future preservation.  The guys who have been around long enough have seen many blades ruined by such attempts, and that hurts the nihonto heart. 

 

 

The list of the so called B team used to be and is a lot longer. Many exceptional polishers in America have passed on and didn't advertise. I remember finding one that lived 45 minutes from me. He wanted to know who told me about him and wasn't happy until an hour of convincing . This was 25 years ago. His apprentice works the same way. I believe what Adam wrote should be used and the other academic purist ad hominem Parriot should be left behind.  People aren't buying it, it's 2022.