KB1107 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Posted February 5, 2022 Hello all, i recently purchased a kai gunto sword from only pics in an auction. The sword was located in a different state so I was unable to visually inspect it. The first pic is from the ad and the second pic was after I disassembled it. Anybody notice anything different? Grin Anyways, I’m not that upset about it because it was only $700.00. However, that should’ve been disclosed or post recent pics. The blade is very thick and heavy... appears well made. I’m curious about the kanji on the tang. Thanks Quote
KB1107 Posted February 5, 2022 Author Report Posted February 5, 2022 Sorry, can’t post the other pic. Seller cleaned the tang... absolutely no rust. Hopefully, it’s not an oldddd blade. I can email a clearer photo... Don’t know how to add to the thread Quote
Brian Posted February 5, 2022 Report Posted February 5, 2022 The only thing that can prevent pic uploading is massive file size. Resize. Quote
SteveM Posted February 5, 2022 Report Posted February 5, 2022 The signature looks to be 源任功 Minamoto Yoshinori (? other possible readings). A very brief search on the internet turned up nothing, and it seems a bit unlike signatures normally found on WW2 swords. Possible to see pictures of the blade itself? Quote
Mark Posted February 5, 2022 Report Posted February 5, 2022 nakago looks typical of WWII Showato blades to me. Quote
KB1107 Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Posted February 6, 2022 This is how the sword came... the original saya is in pretty bad shape. The seller made a saya to fit the sword and removed the original fitting from the original saya to the new saya, he did a very nice job. I understand why he did it, the sword is very big and heavy... not the usual WW2 sword. The habaki is a bit unusual for a WW2 sword as well (said it was completely green when he purchased the sword 25 years ago).. I have my opinion of this being a put together sword. I believe all are original parts... but are all original to the sword? “115” stamped twice at the bottom of the tang (Nakago). Original? Maybe this is the reason for the clean tang? It appears somebody wanted a Kia gunto... but didn’t want to spend the money for one? Either way... I’m please with the purchase and it displays nicely in my gun room. Hope the pics help! Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted February 6, 2022 Report Posted February 6, 2022 I'd say he did an incredible job if he actually made that new saya himself! Wow! It's unusual to see a custom habaki on kaigunto, but I've learned to never say "never" with WWII gunto. I have 14 other kaigunto with stamped numbers on the nakago. Again, more common on gunto, but not unusual for kaigunto. No one knows definitively what their purpose was. We assume most of them were put there by fittings shops, as the fittings often bear the same number, and were probably done to keep the customized pieces together as they were made to specifically fit each blade. But there are several blades in my survey with both stamped and painted numbers, like yours, that are different numbers. So, either the blade was fitted out twice, or the stamped numbers are something else. Looks like yours is missing the tsuba/seppa set. Are there any numbers inside the metal saya end-cap? Sometimes there are numbers stamped in there. Quote
KB1107 Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Posted February 6, 2022 Hi Bruce, First, thanks for the info on the Rinji-seikishi sword you emailed me... I’ll receive it sometime next week. Yes, the seller did an amazing job on the saya... he was a furniture maker by trade (Very nice man). Unfortunately, the sword was in the scabbard when shipped. It wasn’t packed very well and the tang busted through one side of the box. Apparently, it must’ve been dropped and forced the sword further into the saya than it should’ve. The saya cracked from the habaki being too tight in the saya, and the wood under the top fitting of the saya broke off. I was able to repair it... bummer! Anyways, I looked for any numbers on the hardware that it came with. All I found was some kind of a kanji under the saya cap (I’ll add the photo). The seller had a tsuba set that he didn’t include with the sale of the sword. I asked him if he was interested in selling them because he had already fitted them to the sword. He sent them to me and refused to take any money... I offered him a check, zelle, PayPal... just tell me what you want for them. Nope! .... they look good, one seppa is a little short though. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 3 Report Posted September 3 On 2/5/2022 at 3:41 PM, SteveM said: The signature looks to be 源任功 Minamoto Yoshinori (? other possible readings). A very brief search on the internet turned up nothing, and it seems a bit unlike signatures normally found on WW2 swords. Possible to see pictures of the blade itself? Sesko lists a bunch of various kanji for "Yoshi" but none with this one. Do you have a reference for it? Could we see if anyone has a different reading for this smith? Quote
SteveM Posted September 3 Report Posted September 3 This is a list of possible "name" readings for 任. It lists Ataru, Tae, Taka, Takashi, Tada, Tane, Tamotsu, To, Tō, Nori, Hide, Makashi, Makoto, and Yoshi. I think it notes "Tada" in red because that would be the most common reading for it. https://b-name.jp/赤ちゃん名前辞典/m/moji/任,ただ/ 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 3 Report Posted September 3 Thanks Steve, I'm checked each one to see if Sesko uses any of them. So far, I've found a TŌSHI (任使), but obviously, the wrong second kanji. He also uses it in SATŌ (左任) → UTŌ (右任), and KUNITŌ (国任), but no recorded uses of the TŌ in front. Now, this is a reach, but is it possible the mei uses simplified versions of other kanji, like: NORISUKE (法助)? On another note, Markus lists the second kanji as: (功) Koto, as in: ARIKOTO (有功), And in the end, we already know there were several WWII smiths that simply don't show up in anyone's lists. Quote
Kiipu Posted September 3 Report Posted September 3 I found two other swords by this swordsmith. @Markus Below is the first one. Not much other than the characters. Interpreting kanji on samurai sword The second one is in naval fittings, same as the one in the OP. It is over at auctree, item b1106655914. I will post the link but it will come up forbidden. It has the same style habaki as the OP. https://aucfree.com/m/items/b1106655914 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 4 Report Posted September 4 13 hours ago, Kiipu said: Below is the first one. Nice find, Thomas! The first site went for: 源任功 Minamoto no Tadakatsu/Yoshinori Just for clarity, the reason I'm chasing this is because I have a blade with this mei, posted by @KB1107 some time ago, with the numbers "115 115" stamped on the end of the nakago. Once this one popped up, I noticed the differing kanji to other Yoshinori blades I have on file. Quote
KB1107 Posted November 9 Author Report Posted November 9 Hello… I’m way late to this discussion because I’ve been out of the country. I’ve always wondered about this sword… it’s probably the nicest one I own (She’s a beauty… and the heaviest sword as well). I too thought this was just an unknown maker… 1 Quote
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