Importing a sword into the UK.

[FZ1]

Absolute nightmare Paz. I've never known anyone have so much hassle importing any collectable item (not just swords), so I can't imagine why this one has gone so pear-shaped.

DEEP breaths ............... aaaaand relax!

 

As you say, you will indeed be the NMB expert on importing to the UK by the time you get your sword; you'll have every email address and contact number that anyone will ever need.

 

Jon

 

[Lareon]

Well hold your hat. I had the police at my door yesterday. And today j got a notice of siezure for 2 swords coming from America.

 

So now I have to go to court if I want them back..

[FZ1]

OK, so now I HAVE heard of someone getting more hassle.

 

What was the reason for seizure Tony?

[Gakusee]

Tony, that is very curious. Could you care to elaborate as to the reason they confiscated them and you need to court? Was it to do with paperwork, or were they “modern” swords not considered antiques? Even so, that is a very radical development….

[Lareon]

15 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

Tony, that is very curious. Could you care to elaborate as to the reason they confiscated them and you need to court? Was it to do with paperwork, or were they “modern” swords not considered antiques? Even so, that is a very radical development….

They are both traditional. One koto and one star stamped gendaito.

 

I assume it's to do with the documentation as I did notice Kraft auction house put machine made blade on the star stamped gendaito but it still would be before 1954 so they're all above board.

 

It's all happening at the moment. The police just turned up again a minute ago to tell me it's illegal to own swords...

Gave me a print out from Google of the law and I had to tell them the exceptions.

 

To appeal the siezure is a court process. They didn't give a reason for the confiscation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paz]

Tony

 

Did you provide them documentation ie they sent you the c160 form , or prove its antique.  

 

I know anything that isn't handmade is seen as suspicious. 

 

Your problem seems the paperwork by seller. 

 

While mine seems to be human error by customs , I absolutely belive they have new people working their. 

[Lareon]

I didn't receive a c160 form no. I did supply an addendum to the invoice describing it with the correct customs import code. that I asked the auction house to put on the box I also supplied this to DHL and customs

[FZ1]

1 hour ago, Lareon said:

The police just turned up again a minute ago to tell me it's illegal to own swords...

Gave me a print out from Google of the law and I had to tell them the exceptions.

 

Its somewhat worrying to find out that the Police use Google for their understanding of UK law.

[Paz]

3 minutes ago, FZ1 said:

 

Its somewhat worrying to find out that the Police use Google for their understanding of UK law.

 

Lol This bit got me aswell. I mean at least make it as if you know what your doing. 

[Lareon]

Trouble is he gave me the printout which clearly has the exception on it. Then he told me it's illegal to have them in your house. I questioned him a few times on that and he eventually relented.

 

He left me the helpful document he printed.

 

 

[Paz]

So what do you have to do now to get these swords back or delivered Tony ? 

[Lareon]

23 minutes ago, Paz said:

So what do you have to do now to get these swords back or delivered Tony ? 

I have to write a letter to border force requesting a court proceeding to appeal the seizure of the items. The items may be destroyed though so I will only get my money back if that is the case.

 

I'm hoping they aren't so aggressive and destroyed them as that would be such a loss.

[Paz]

So who refunds you If they are destroyed? Is that border force ? 

 

 

[Lareon]

Yes I believe so. If you lose the case though you potentially have to pay borderforces costs 

[Brian]

Can't tell you how much I loathe the UK authorities right now. The fact that you have to be treated like this just for collecting Japanese swords makes me angry.
I would make sure you tell them they are the ones breaking the law, and you intend to sue them for costs, time and the loss of valuable ethnographic items.
They can't just do what they want. There are consequences. Maybe approach the press (if there is anyone there that is not yet brainwashed)

[Lareon]

Yes it was quite shocking, didn't expect the police to turn up at my door. Thought if there was some kind of issue with the import it could be dealt with via telephone or email or something. Its a waste of everyone's time to go to the trouble of doing this as I'm clearly in the right and have obeyed the law.

 

I just hope the blades aren't destroyed as I bought them from Kraft specifically to preserve them as they hadn't been cared for.

 

 

[Brian]

You may want to remind them that these are unique, one of a kind art pieces that cannot be replaced and that destroying them would be against the laws of just about every country.
Sick of the UK destroying collectors items with no consequences.

[Lareon]

I will start my own thread about this as things progress. I posted my appeal letter today so will get a reply within 15 days now. When I get an update I'll make a thread and can go through the process. Maybe there are some things I did wrong that I don't know about or maybe they're over zealous but I shall find out and it will hopefully be of benefit to the community.

[TomJ]

Hi All,

 

It seems luck has a lot to do with it, I ordered a sword 3 weeks after Paz from Aoi art , on the advice of Paz I asked them to include the sword description and invoice with the paperwork

My sword arrived in customs UK on Friday morning, after reading this thread I was feeling very nervous about the whole thing , but when I checked this morning it was out for delivery and arrived today , no forms or anything.

 

Very happy , very lucky

 

Tom

[Paz]

Update. 

 Good news 

Released from customs with a 160 quid charge. 

 

Compared to the 4k that is a breath of fresh air.  And i can try to get the 160 back with bor form. 

 

I agree with Tom. Its luck and who deals with it,  not necessarily what you always put on there. The fact that my paperwork was accepted but somebody got the calculations wrong and took the wrong currency and put a charge of 4k was heart failure material. 

 

Fingers crossed now I can collect from depot Wednesday. 

 

It's crazy that in the past I imported two iaitos from Japan without problem ! And the reason was I was a member of the BKA. 

 

But I'd imagined that an antique would be easier. 

[Alex A]

Jeez, mind boggles.

 

All i can say is in this day and age it is absolutely CRITICAL the description on the package is crystal clear and accurate.

 

After that, just hope you dont get a naïve narrow minded buffoon dealing with it.

 

Crazy.

[Alex A]

One more thing, at the risk of boring myself and others one last time.

 

The issue is the customs at PARCELFORCE HUB COVENTRY and lack of knowledge to deal with such imports.

 

If sellers keep on sending such items via couriers that end with PARCELFORCE this end, then the same issues will arise on occasion. This includes EMS and USPS.

 

Folk need to try UPS, they have their own planes and own CUSTOMS CLEARANCE DEPOT in the UK. 

 

Not swords, but ive had 3 antique firearms shipped with no hassles whatsoever. They land and you receive an EMAIL with one or two forms to fill in ONLINE and send back ONLINE (takes 5 minutes). None of this ancient LETTER through the POST nonsense you get with PARCELFORCE.

 

Now, its been said that UPS will not accept swords, but i know for a fact a Dutch antique dealer that sells swords and every other kind of weapon uses them, and only uses them. The gun dealer in the US uses them because he got sick and tired with hassles that ended with PARCELFORCE.

 

We are not doing anything ILLEGAL, just INEPT folk dealing with stuff this end

 

How does that old saying go about doing the same thing over and over again go and expecting a different result.

 

If maybe a better option, worth looking in to.

 

[Lareon]

Ups have been the best for me. They're a lot more expensive but I don't have issues. I asked for ups from the company sending my swords but they used DHL. I knew there would be an issue but I didn't expect it to be this bad. 

 

So I agree ups has been my most reliable.

[Alex A]

The thing with UPS, they were PREPARED to deal with the imports properly.

 

Same thing on all 3 occasions. Gets an email, same 2 forms to fill in and send back online, 2 hours later, cleared.  All relevent info on the forms, straight forward.

 

Customs at parcelforce, Jeez, once sent a tanto back to the US just because the sender only put an initial for first name on parcel

 

Luck of the draw
 

 

[FZ1]

Just to put a bit of context on it, let's not forget that there are only a few nightmare stories with PF. 

 

The huge majority of the imports get cleared in a couple of weeks with no real problems.

[paulb]

not wanting to add confusion but I have also had stories of UPS refusing to ship swords regardless of supporting paperwork stating they were illegal in the UK. As has been pointe out the problem is not the law or the rules it is the way people interpret them (or fail to). As Jon suggest we never hear of the painless transactions only those that cause problems. This of course is little consolation to those who do have problems. It is an increasing fact of life that shipping swords is becoming more challenging than it has been.

[Paz]

I finally managed to get my sword, just picked it up and was charged the 5 percent. 

 

I agree with what's been said. Ups usually email the person  and get the details very quickly. 

 

Glad it's over. 

What a balls ache, but parcelforce have been great. Their customer service was fantastic, picked up my calls and helped me as they could. 

 

It was the customs bureau  that kicked me where it hurts. 

[Alex A]

Congratulations Paz.

 

On the contrary, never had much assistance from Parcelforce, especially when it comes to contacting the customs to sort stuff  out. Still actually owed money for an overcharge some years ago, i gave up. Anyways, il stop moaning about them now. 

 

On a good note, never had an issue with anything leaving the UK, through them

 

Paul, perhaps UPS are more open to ship swords etc when the folk wanting to ship are registered businesses/dealers. Maybe not so easy for Joe-public just wanting to ship one sword. The Antique gun dealer in the US i spoke to said he had to approach them to discuss the issue, the Dutch antiques dealer uses them for everything, swords included.

 

Ive never tried them as Parcelforce seem ok with stuff heading out of the country, insurance is now a no-go though.

 

I would hope that any dealer reading this would try and ship through UPS if sending to the UK, even at more cost. Might just save them and the buyer a boat load of hassles.

 

Reading too many lately, seems worse since Brexit.

 

 

 

[Shugyosha]

That’s great news Paz, I hope that you enjoy your new sword! 

[Paz]

1 hour ago, Shugyosha said:

That’s great news Paz, I hope that you enjoy your new sword! 

Thanks John I appreciate your help. 

 

its the best hassel and wait I've had for a parcel