Importing a sword into the UK.

[IJASWORDS]

Could you please update me on the current regulations regarding the importation of a sword into the UK. If it is possible, what documents or description is preferred. Thanks in advance. 

[Paz]

Hi Neil. 

 

I am in the middle of going through this process currently, and according to I have what gathered. 

 

You can import nihonto or a modern blade as long as it meets the following requirements. 

 

-handforged using traditional methods 

-before 1954 

-antique older than 100 years 

 

Modern stainless steel swords are banned. 

 

You will be required to pay tax at 5% for antique.

In terms of paperwork The seller will have to declare it as a antique,  or traditionally made modern  blade. Again,  this is the sellers responsibility to include correct paperwork. 

 

I'm currently in the process of getting an export permit from Japan ( which is done by the seller , in my case Aoi) which takes 3 weeks. This process is unique to Japan,  where all swords must be registered.  You won't need a permit as far as I am aware from Europe or America.

 

Depending on courier in the UK ie parcelforce,  will bill you or send you a letter for vat payment. Which will then release the sword for delivery.

 

I'm very sure and hopeful that people on this forum with  more experience will give you a better answer. Particularly those who have purchased numerous times from abroad. 

 

Kind regards 

Paz

 

 

[Brian]

A few threads worth reading:

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32700-antiques-exempt-from-uk-import-duty-from-non-eu-countries

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/33057-its-getting-harder-to-move-swords-within-the-uk

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/32700-antiques-exempt-from-uk-import-duty-from-non-eu-countries

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/25982-uk-legislation-raises-its-head-again

 

[Paz]

Out of curiosity 

 

Has anyone actually used or confirmed  the cpc 4000 code for antique more 150 years , since the thread last went silent? Your saving quite a bit of bob with no tax and vat. 

Plus is it your responsibility to tell the seller, or do most popular sellers already know this. 

 

 

Regards

[Brian]

Not sure what a cpc 4000 code is?
Customs tariff codes for antiques is according to this table, and the same for many countries:
https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/chapters/97

[Gakusee]

43 minutes ago, Paz said:

Out of curiosity 

 

Has anyone actually used or confirmed  the cpc 4000 code for antique more 150 years , since the thread last went silent? Your saving quite a bit of bob with no tax and vat. 

Plus is it your responsibility to tell the seller, or do most popular sellers already know this. 

 

 

Regards

Paz, that does not seem relevant - neither the goods, nor the intended application of the regulation. Read it fully here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-trade-tariff-customs-procedure-codes/imports-home-use-with-simultaneous-entry-for-free-circulation

[FZ1]

This page about the specific 9706 code has sub-pages relating to the CPC codes.   https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/headings/9706

 

It appears that the CPC code relates ONLY to the CUSTOMS DUTY tariff not the VAT rate. They are two separate charges.  i.e. Antiques have a Customs Duty tariff of 0%, but there is still the VAT charge of 5%. 

 

I assume that this is where the confusion about "0%" came from

 

 

One other tip - make sure the sender puts an approx date of production on the description, even if they've stated "Over 100 years old" or "Antique" in the description (I had a delay of a week from Parcelforce Customs Clearance because there was no date on the description)

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

[Paz]

5 minutes ago, FZ1 said:

This page about the specific 9706 code has sub-pages relating to the CPC codes.   https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/headings/9706

 

It appears that the CPC code relates ONLY to the CUSTOMS DUTY tariff not the VAT rate. They are two separate charges.  i.e. Antiques have a Customs Duty tariff of 0%, but there is still the VAT charge of 5%. 

 

I assume that this is where the confusion about "0%" came from

 

 

One other tip - make sure the sender puts an approx date of production on the description, even if they've stated "Over 100 years old" or "Antique" in the description (I had a delay of a week from Parcelforce Customs Clearance because there was no date on the description)

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

So Jon,  that would be the date of "supposed" production ie 1845 , or 16th century ect. 

 

Il make a note. 

[sencho]

Does anyone know anything about the rules for transporting from US to UK in check in luggage?

[mas4t0]

6 hours ago, sencho said:

Does anyone know anything about the rules for transporting from US to UK in check in luggage?

 

The same law applies.

 

Be sure to declare it and to have all relevant documentation with the blade.

 

You'll need to persuade the Border Force officer that it's covered by one of the exemptions and is legal in the UK.

 

If you have a JSA licence, this will be helpful to keep with you too as it provides an additional exemption.

 

I've found that they tend to be quite trusting of almost anything in writing.

 

I like to write or print out anything I'm going to say about the blade and keep those documents with it.

 

It's well worth the preparation, if the officer isn't convinced and decides to seize it, you'll be without the blade while you appeal the seizure.

 

This document has more detail and I believe is the guidance referred to by the Border Force.

[FZ1]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:36 AM, Paz said:

So Jon,  that would be the date of "supposed" production ie 1845 , or 16th century ect. 

 

Yes Paz.  If its not dated then something like "Manufactured c.1645" or "Produced between 1600 and 1650".  They seem to be quite happy as long as its clearly an "antique date".

 

Jon

[Paz]

Hi all , just a heads up. 

 

And hopefully this could support anybody in the future.  

 

AOI ART contacted me to say that my sword is ready for export , and if I would like to write anything on the invoice. 

 

I requested that they say "over 100 years old antique,  custom tariff 9706.00.00.00"

 

Il update what happens when it arrives in the UK. 

 

 

[ckaiserca]

3 hours ago, Paz said:

AOI ART contacted me to say that my sword is ready for export , and if I would like to write anything on the invoice.

I have always been happy with the service from Aoi-Art. Not so much with FedEx which is how they have to ship to Canada lately (EMS is not currently available from Japan to Canada). My last blade sat in Anchorage, Alaska for 3 full days, and then sat in Memphis, Tennessee for two days, and then I had to jump through hoops to get it cleared through customs. 

[Paz]

7 hours ago, ckaiserca said:

I have always been happy with the service from Aoi-Art. Not so much with FedEx which is how they have to ship to Canada lately (EMS is not currently available from Japan to Canada). My last blade sat in Anchorage, Alaska for 3 full days, and then sat in Memphis, Tennessee for two days, and then I had to jump through hoops to get it cleared through customs. 

Hi Charles yes. I've heard about FedEx and their problems in general with swords. The UK uses EMS to parcelforce,  which is their UK delivery service.  

[PNSSHOGUN]

UPS from Japan worked well recently, no issues with customs. The seller listed it as a replica sword.

[Lareon]

I do this a lot. I've imported last year 3 times and have 5 swords currently coming to the UK from two different auctions in the USA.

 

I usually request ups as even though it takes longer. It converts to parcelforce In the UK which are one of the only sword carrying services, I hate parcelforce but I'd rather that than the item returned to sender.

 

I always put harmonic tarrif 9706.00.00.00

Antique over 100 years. I also write a description of the sword and "relief requested" I then ask the shipper to include this in the documentation attached to the package Including the invoice. 

I expect to pay 5% at the border.

The process can take anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months worse case.

 

Currently have one being shipped with ups and even though I asked for ups the other auction house has shipped with DHL express.

 

This is currently on hold in the USA and. Assuming I'm going to have issues as I'm pretty sure DHL don't carry swords in the UK anymore, I reckon I'll have to argue for them to refund that postage and ship again with ups once the items are returned to them.

So that will definitely be a hassle.

 

The ups item is scheduled for tomorrow but it will most likely be held in high value storage at customs for a while and not be delivered for a while yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lareon]

On 1/29/2022 at 7:51 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

UPS from Japan worked well recently, no issues with customs. The seller listed it as a replica sword.

 

Would be vary wary of this tactic. Technically it should not have passed customs as only traditionally made swords and swords before 1954 are allowed when the blade is longer than 50cm.

You can import for event based purposes but will need to prove membership to such an event or club to customs to that's the only way a replica would be allowed in legally

 

[Paz]

1 hour ago, Lareon said:

 

Would be vary wary of this tactic. Technically it should not have passed customs as only traditionally made swords and swords before 1954 are allowed when the blade is longer than 50cm.

You can import for event based purposes but will need to prove membership to such an event or club to customs to that's the only way a replica would be allowed in legally

 

 

Hi Tony. I've done the same but it's with EMS from Japan. Quoted 9706.00.00.00 over 100 years old. And yes it's parcelforce in the uk who then ask for payment. But the antique and custom tariff should only charge me 5 percent (if they what there doing). 

 

I don't think a sword from  Japan would be held up In Japan due to the export tariff papers.

 

But how long do you usually wait for parcelforce to send you the charge letter once it arrives In the UK ? 

 

Thanks 

[Lareon]

2 hours ago, Paz said:

 

Hi Tony. I've done the same but it's with EMS from Japan. Quoted 9706.00.00.00 over 100 years old. And yes it's parcelforce in the uk who then ask for payment. But the antique and custom tariff should only charge me 5 percent (if they what there doing). 

 

I don't think a sword from  Japan would be held up In Japan due to the export tariff papers.

 

But how long do you usually wait for parcelforce to send you the charge letter once it arrives In the UK ? 

 

Thanks 

Parcelforce as soon as available you can call and pay the invoice but only after its released by customs. Or you have to wait a few days after for the letter. I usually see it on tracking and call.

 

If you use the 9706.00.00.00 there's no need to put replica sword down for UK purposes as it is perfectly legal to import. This also gives you the 5% duty rate.

 

A replica blade made after 1954 would be illegal to import and if it is not 100 years old would be 20% vat anyway.

 

simply putting replica blade is something I'd avoid to put on the import declaration.

 

A curious border force inspection may ask why the replica is an antique over 100 years old and ask for more paperwork.

 

I have on multiple times had to email supporting information on the age of an item held in customs.

 

See below an email I received from the clearance bureau

---+

Hello,

 

Thank you for your email.

Can you please provide an invoice for what you have purchased, and provide the year of manufacture for this as well.

 

Kind Regards,

 

-- name redacted --

Customs Clearance Bureau

Parcelforce Worldwide

----

 

[Paz]

4 hours ago, Lareon said:

Parcelforce as soon as available you can call and pay the invoice but only after its released by customs. Or you have to wait a few days after for the letter. I usually see it on tracking and call.

 

If you use the 9706.00.00.00 there's no need to put replica sword down for UK purposes as it is perfectly legal to import. This also gives you the 5% duty rate.

 

A replica blade made after 1954 would be illegal to import and if it is not 100 years old would be 20% vat anyway.

 

simply putting replica blade is something I'd avoid to put on the import declaration.

 

A curious border force inspection may ask why the replica is an antique over 100 years old and ask for more paperwork.

 

I have on multiple times had to email supporting information on the age of an item held in customs.

 

See below an email I received from the clearance bureau

---+

Hello,

 

Thank you for your email.

Can you please provide an invoice for what you have purchased, and provide the year of manufacture for this as well.

 

Kind Regards,

 

-- name redacted --

Customs Clearance Bureau

Parcelforce Worldwide

----

 

Thank you Tony. I track it and call parcelforce as soon as it arrives in the UK. And its cleared by customs.

[Paz]

I would like to update this post so that it helps the original poster and anyone else who is considering or in the midst of importation. 

 

I have had PM from people asking me about the process, as well as I have had a few PM exchanges with more experienced members of the community. As we all are here to help each other. I would like to thank the members I have had these PM with. 

 

So my sword arrived in the UK from Aoi art last week on Tuesday.  I gave aoi the instruction to write " over 100 years old antique " 9706.00.00.00 custom tariff. 

 

I beleived this would do the trick. 

 

However customs clearance then sent me a c160 form, which arrived this Monday, asking me for an invoice evidence and proof of payment. 

I completed the form, and attached evidence such as PayPal screenshot of the amount I paid, invoice from aoi, and a copy of my membership card of the Token society. 

 

I then received an email response 3 days later, asking for more information regarding the date of manufacture,  as they could not accept "antique over 100 years old". 

Upon which I then replied with the sellers description of the swordsmith school and lineage ( 1552-1578) late muromachi period. 

 

Later they replied to tell me that my paperwork and item was now in process of going through customs clearance. 

Which I gather will take another couple of days. ( as they are busy). 

 

As a first timer, yes it was stressful. Never looked so forward to receiving a charge letter. 

 

For anyone else, please take head of advice from the more experienced members. And do provide more information on invoices. I was under the impression that AOi would do this, but it seems that they only write what you tell them. Next time,  I will state date, how much I paid in gbp ect. 

 

Hope this helps. I will update once I hear more news. 

[Brian]

I loathe customs. I expect you will still have to jump through some hoops.
Many years ago (before I stopped even bothering to import sword) I received a sword from eBay without papers, declared as an antique. Customs demanded 14% vat, and when I said it is labelled as antique, they replied I had to show proof from an accredited organization. I asked what/who that was, and they replied they don't know, but it must be someone accredited. The more I inquired, the more they insisted it must be by an official organization, in English, but that they didn't know who that was and could give me zero info, but I have to comply or pay the roughly $150 duty.
In the end, I had to pay.

[FZ1]

 

Like I said ............. 

 

On 1/27/2022 at 10:29 AM, FZ1 said:

One other tip - make sure the sender puts an approx date of production on the description, even if they've stated "Over 100 years old" or "Antique" in the description (I had a delay of a week from Parcelforce Customs Clearance because there was no date on the description)

 

However, sometime you drop lucky with the process. 

I had two items come through recently; one took about 3-4 weeks (with the questionnaire needing to be completed & sent back, etc, etc) but the other whistled through with no questions, no delay ....... and no VAT!  Not sure why, but I'll take it as a win  

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

 

[Paz]

11 minutes ago, FZ1 said:

 

Like I said ............. 

 

 

However, sometime you drop lucky with the process. 

I had two items come through recently; one took about 3-4 weeks (with the questionnaire needing to be completed & sent back, etc, etc) but the other whistled through with no questions, no delay ....... and no VAT!  Not sure why, but I'll take it as a win  

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

 

How lucky Jon. 

 

So how long did it take aftet they stopped asking for paperwork ? Ie processing through customs clearance. My final email was a pasted description of mino sword lineage from aoi art.  Which they then said we will clear it for you soon. 

 

If they weren't satisfied with my info would they charge me full 20 percent Vat ? 

 

As i gather this is all to do with how much to charge VAT.

 

 

What a fiasco 

[FZ1]

I moaned at them via email about 3 days after sending the last lot of paperwork by post and email.  After the moan, they apologised  for the delay and said they'd refer it to a colleague.  To be fair, they cleared it within a day or two of that and even the "charge" letter only took a coupe of days.  I think it's pot-luck as to who deals with it as to how quick it it is (I also wonder if they have some new people started at PF Coventry who are no so experienced and are arse-covering by asking for the questionnaire/forms/info, etc?)

 

It's always a juggling-act deciding how long before you start complaining.  However, my "moan" was mild, pleasant and respectful, so as not to cheese them off and delay it any longer.

 

On the "plus" side, it sounds like you're on the last-lap, Paz and you'll have it soon.  And next time, you'll know what to expect, so it'll be less stressful!   

[Paz]

Urgent help required. 

 

I called parcelforce as my item had been cleared 

 

My sword has been cleared from customs. But with a 4,000. 00 VAT charge , yes you read that correct 4k.  It cost me 3,112.23 

 

I'm astonished. I sent all paperwork with How much I paid , invoice and PayPal screenshot. 

 

I called hmrc who said that doesant sound right but then told me to tell parcelforce to do something on their end. 

I call parcelforce again, and the guy tells me to email PFW-ccb and try to get them to look at.

 

There has been a big mistake

 

The choice I have is to pay 4k and raise a form to get the money back or let the parcel go back to Japan and get a refund off of Aoi art. 

 

I'm at wits end.

 

Any advice please . I've now emailed pfw ccb with my complaint. 

 

Please note that i have not yet received the letter. 

 

Regards 

 

 

[Gakusee]

No need to panic. Administrative error somewhere. Call the numbers I have privately given you. Walk them through what is going on. Make sure you send them an email with the calculation (that many yen paid at the FX rate of the day of X meant that many pounds times the 5% VAT). 

 

Did you rush and not put the number you paid in pounds sterling? Did you only give them the yen invoice? It might be they charged you 5% on the yen amount or something. 
 

Errors do happen, even though not to me. Despite what people say, I often dealt with Parcelforce and they were reasonable when I did so. 
 

But talk to them. Do not make the rookie mistake of only sending emails or thinking that matters will sort out themselves. 

[Paz]

@GakuseeMichael I emaild them the currency telling them i paid in gbp. 

 

I'm beginning to laugh at it now. I will get my money back even if I pay the amount. 

 

I beleive its a currency thing as the hmrc said 

 

Update 

 

I called parcelforce politely. And a lady has agreed to send an email from her behalf to customs border force. And I've explained that it looks like a currency issue. Telling her I paid 

3,112.23 gbp sterling, as on the PayPal screenshot and invoice from aoi shows yen. 

 

Also commodity code 9706.00.00.00 , as I may not even need to pay according to hrmc person as its more than 250 years old. 

 

 

3 people from parcelforce and one from hmrc both agree this looks like an error. 

 

I will hopefully be an export expert after this. 

[Brian]

Sounds like they assumed the Yen amount was GBP.
This is why I don't import anything anymore. SA is exactly the same, and the stress is bad for my health.

[Paz]

Brian that seems likely what may have happened. Either way it's incorrect and I can't belive how dull you have to be to ignore my evidence of amount paid in gbp. I thought they would do the currency homework,  plus the PayPal shows currency aswell.