Kai Gunto issued by IJN?

[BANGBANGSAN]

I was checking on the file of the surrender swords by IJN in Taiwan in 1945. The list mention 私品（Privately owned)and 官品（Government/Navy property), also said some kind of carry permit in applying process for the Privately owned sword.
We all know the Type 95 NCO sword was issued by the army and its army property. It got me wondering what kind of Kai Gunto was issued by IJN?
I'm thinking maybe the double hanger black paint wood saya, with Navy anchor  logo on the tang and no smith mei, like the photos I'm posting, what do you guys think?

 

[Bruce Pennington]

You might try running this by Nick Komiya.  He's the one that uncovered the Army's reg that permitted private purchase of Type 95s.  Maybe you'll tickle his curiosity and get him to do some more digging.

 

On the face of it, I have never heard of "government property" officer swords of either Army or Navy.  There were arsenal-made gunto in both services, so could this possibly be referring to a gunto bought directly from the arsenal, rather than from the officers club?

[BANGBANGSAN]

51 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

You might try running this by Nick Komiya.  He's the one that uncovered the Army's reg that permitted private purchase of Type 95s.  Maybe you'll tickle his curiosity and get him to do some more digging.

 

On the face of it, I have never heard of "government property" officer swords of either Army or Navy.  There were arsenal-made gunto in both services, so could this possibly be referring to a gunto bought directly from the arsenal, rather than from the officers club?

I think Type 95 is Army's property,like Type 30 bayonet and rifles.

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, I think I'm getting a more clear picture of your question.  I thought you were saying that there was a kaigunto listed on the documents as both privately owned and government property.  I cannot read the page, so I'm going by your description.  Are you saying there is a row for privately owned, and a row for government property, and there are numbers of kaigunto in the "government property" row?  If so, I'm betting they are classifying arsenal stamped blades, like the one you posted, as "government" blades and ancestral, civil, swords as "privately owned." Sounds like whomever made the chart didn't really know how it worked for officer gunto. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Perhaps with the private blades they had to be approved by a CO if they were particular long or otherwise unusual?

[BANGBANGSAN]

32 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Are you saying there is a row for privately owned, and a row for government property, and there are numbers of kaigunto in the "government property" row?

Yes,on the right 

軍刀  五二（官品Government property)
          二九（私品Privately owned）

[BANGBANGSAN]

36 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Perhaps with the private blades they had to be approved by a CO if they were particular long or otherwise unusual?

I think in that chart,長劍 means saber,短劍 means dagger,短刀 means Waki short kai.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Still might get some clarification from Nick on the meaning of the charted rows.

[Kiipu]

52 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

I think in that chart, 長劍 means saber, 短劍 means dagger, 短刀 means Waki short kai.

 

Search JACAR for 長剣 and you will find plenty of Taiwan & naval references to this.

短剣 = for the navy, translate this as dirk.

 

@BANGBANGSAN To search JACAR, convert the older characters to the new versions using this link.  The character 劍 becomes 剣. 

Old Japanese Kanji to New Japanese Kanji Converter

[Kolekt-To]

Some fine-looking Kai Guntos featured on this thread!

[Kiipu]

It seems the Type 97 seen in images 5337, 5339, and 5340, has a plain anchor mark.  What I mean by this is that the anchor does not appear to be encircled.  This is only the third sword I have seen with this type of anchor.

Shigemitsu & Nakago Stamp

[Jcstroud]

17 hours ago, Kiipu said:

It seems the Type 97 seen in images 5337, 5339, and 5340, has a plain anchor mark.  What I mean by this is that the anchor does not appear to be encircled.  This is only the third sword I have seen with this type of anchor.

Shigemitsu & Nakago Stamp

The uncircled anchors were from Tenshozan tanrenjo aka Kamakura aka Japanese Naval Sword Company in Zishi for those who do not know .

John S.

P.S.but not like the example in kiipu's previous link.even though Shigemitsu was said to have worked at Tenshozan

[Kiipu]

There is actually a difference between a plain anchor as seen above and the one used by Tenshozan.  Note the additional details in the Tenshozan anchor.

TENZOSHAN FORGE.jpg