Need translation help for this sword

[MarkCB]

Wondering if I could get some assistance with what this says?  It is a sword my dad gave me. It was a friend of dads.  His friend was a ww2 US soldier who was stationed in Japan for a time after the war. He befriended a Japanese soldier who gave it to him as a gift when he went home. Thanks in advance!

[Bruce Pennington]

Welcome Mark!  Someone will help soon with the swordsmith's name.  Is this all you have of the fittings?  From the look of the fuchi (black collar on the handle) it originally in a Rinji Seishiki (Contingency model) fittings.

 

You can read up on them here:

Type 3 gunto Misnamed

and

Unveiling the Rinjiseishiki Sword

[Ray Singer]

Not fully readable tm me, but looks like Amakawa ___ju Masazane saku

[MarkCB]

Thanks Bruce and Ray.  Unfortunately, that is all I have of it. No fittings. 
 

I’m very much a novice.  Wondering what year it was made, where it was made, who made it, and what the inscriptions say.

 

 

 

 

[SteveM]

石州長濱住正直作

Sekishū Nagahama-jū Masanao saku

 

Made by Masanao of Nagahama in Ishikawa.

 

 

[MarkCB]

Oh wow. This is soo interesting. So that is the “where” and the “who”. Are you guys familiar with this sword and sword smith.  I’m thinking it was a ww2 era sword from Bruce’s clue about the black Fuchi, right?

[Bruce Pennington]

Marcus Sesko lists 3 "Masanao" smiths working WWII.  This one was from the Aichi prefecture where the city of Nagahama was, so it's likely the one:

 

"

 

MASANAO (正尚), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Aichi – “Murakami Masanao” (村上正尚), “Masanao” (正尚), adopted son of Hayama Enshin (羽山円真)

[MarkCB]

Oh wow. This is soo interesting. So that is the “where” and the “who”. Are you guys familiar with this sword and sword smith.  I’m thinking it was a ww2 era sword from Bruce’s clue about the black Fuchi, right?

[SteveM]

This name is much older than WW2. Masanao (正直) of Nagahama was a smith who worked in the mid 1500s (1558-1570 according to Markus Sesko's index). I'm not familiar with the smith. I can find two other examples of his work on the internet if I google his name. If it is in WW2 mounts it probably means it was an antique sword that someone made WW2 mounts for, and presumably carried off into war. 

 

There are a lot of fake signatures in the sword world, so there is no guarantee this is from the 1500s. In the meantime, you should treat it as if it were a 500 year old antique - which is to say don't do anything to it other than wipe it down gently with light oil, being careful not to leave any fingereprints on it. Don't take anything abrasive to it. Search this site for more care and handling tips. There are some at one of the links at the top of the page. Use a microfibre cloth if you have one. (The kind used for camera lenses and eyeglasses is fine). 

 

 

[MarkCB]

Thanks so much Steve and all!  It is sad, but all I have is what you see. The rest is gone to time.  The blade has been hit with something as there are several dents in the edge.  I was trying to figure out how ot could have ww2 era fittings with a sword-maker who died prior to the war.  Either fake markings or it is much older than the war. 

[SteveM]

OK, well, the blade is the important thing. The fittings are usually made of wood and some other organic materials, and these typically degrade over time and are replaced as needed. Actually, with antique blades it is common to not have any of the furnishings at all - the blade is kept in a plain wooden housing (called a shirasaya). There are craftsmen around, even in the States, who can make you a shirasaya.

 

The guys here might like to see some close-ups of the blade, the tip, and the handle without the piece of paper. Maybe some shots of the area where it is dented. There are polishers who are trained to restore antique Japanese blades, and if your blade is an antique blade, there is a chance it could be brought back to life. But it needs to be done professionally, and not by some dude with an angle-grinder and some sandpaper who will destroy the blade. And beware of guys who say they can restore blades because they bought some Japanese sharpening stones from ebay...these guys will also destroy your blade. 

[Bruce Pennington]

I don’t think Steve is saying your blade is 500 years old. What he is saying is that it could be that old, or it could be from World War II. But without seeing the pictures that he described it is impossible to tell. There were many ancestral blades donated to the war effort, and they were fitted out in military fittings. I personally don’t think your blade is older than World War II, because until recently, when we have just found one, we have never seen ancestral blades in the RS fittings. Now, after having just seen one recently, it is certainly possible. So I wouldn’t rule either option out. The best thing is to get good clear photos like Steve described.

[Brian]

Quote

MASANAO (正直), Eiroku (永禄, 1558-1570), Iwami – “Sekishū Nagahama-jū Masanao saku” (石州長浜住 正直作), suguha, gunome-midare

I think this one is likely an earlier blade mounted for the war. Nakago doesn't look wartime.
I would suspect this to be very possibly by this smith.

[MarkCB]

Hey guys. Here are some more pictures.  

 

A couple interesting things. The slot for the tang carved out of the wooden handle was carved out hastily.  Too much material was removed length wise and it would have been easy enough to trace the tang for a much better job. It was not a precision fit I’d expect, having read of the high quality work done my traditional Japanese sword craftsman.  

 

Lastly, my untrained eyes may be playing tricks on me, but I swear I’m seeing evidence of hamon which wouldn’t be present on a mass produced ww2 sword.  
 

going to upload the pics in a couple batches as it is saying the files are too late. 

 

Thoughts?

[MarkCB]

Shoot. Can’t upload any more pics right now, but have several more that are what you were asked (nakago, blade dents,etc). Can anyone help so I can upload more pics?

[Geraint]

Hi Mark.

 

Go easy!  There's alot to work out here.  First off the bat; WWII swords would in most cases have a hamon, just  little different to what we see in older swords.  Second point to note is that the nakago shape and length, as well as the degree of curvature are not typical for WWII swords.  It would be great to vist with  menber who is close to you who can see the sword in hand and tell you more but in the mean time go slow, just a little light oil on the blade and avoid touching with the hands.

 

All the best.

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, now that I see the whole thing, I agree with the other guys.  This is older, then re-mounted for the war, hence the second hole in the nakago.  

 

@george trotter

[george trotter]

I see a little balloon with my name on it Bruce (I usually see these being pulled over the city skyline by a little bi-plane)...but hey, thanks for the thumbs up.

 

I suspect you called my attention to this post as here again, we are seeing (it looks like) a very old blade that has been re-mounted in RS mounts for WWII use.

Sure does look like a poss. koto blade...look interesting...worth saving for sure.  how great it would have been if the RS mounts had survived with it...that's life.

 

26 in blade - 66 cm. A good WWII length.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, george trotter said:

a little balloon with my name on it Bruce (I usually see these being pulled over the city skyline by a little bi-plane).

You've got quite a fan club there in Fremantle if you see this often, and rightfully so!

[MarkCB]

Wow. This is a lot to take in. Was thinking this was a WW2 produced sword (which it may still be), but based on all your feedback and the physical clues on the blade itself, it is looking to be much older.  For insurance purposes, I think I should have it appraised.  

 

I’ll search for an appraiser, but do you guys have a sense of the range of what  it may be worth?

 

Do you have referrals to good appraisers?

 

What would an appraisal cost?  
 

Can it be done by good photos/video, or would an actual physical examination of the sword be required?

 

Thanks so much all!

[SteveM]

6 hours ago, MarkCB said:

(which it may still be)

Although it is always dangerous to make proclamations based on photos peered at from across the internet, in this case I think you can safely rule out the possibility that this is a WW2 sword. 

[george trotter]

13 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

You've got quite a fan club there in Fremantle if you see this often, and rightfully so!

Aw shucks...you too Bruce...we love your work.

[MarkCB]

Hi folks. I continue to dig into the sword’s history and was wondering if you could add some input on a few areas that are confusing to me regarding the Mei and translations of the individual characters.  For example:
 

1. Sekishu.  I follow the logic that Sekishu refers to Iwami Province which used to be called Sekishu.  Another possibility is modern Day Seki City which was also referred to as Sekishu, right? I’ve been told the sword is Mino vs Bizen style.  Mino swords were made in the Seki City area while Bizen style were made in the Iwami province area.  Do you agree the sword is Mino style?  If so, any thoughts on how to settle on which Sekishu the sword refers to?  If it was made while Masanao was in Iwami Province, would it be odd for him to make a Mino sword (assuming you think it is Mino) while living in an area know for Bizen swords?

 

2. The word Nagahama can refer to a place or a person’s name.  The interpretation is it is a place. Others have said it refers to the smith’s actual name and Masanao was his artistic name. Given you interpret Nagahama as a place, where was this place?  I saw there is a Nagahama shrine in Izumo Japan which I think was in Iwami province and the shrine appears to predate the sword. So would that have been the area you think?  Is there any room in your mind for it to actually refer to a person’s name instead of a place?  Why or why not?

 

3.  The two smiths named Masanao. Is there a book I could buy that refers to them and their works or how do I get my hands on any information about them?

 

This is my first time digging into the nuances of ancient Japanese swords and it is very interesting while at the same time confusing.  The community of people who are experts on this topic have been very kind to share knowledge though, including all of you! So thank you so much for all your help.
 

 I am writting my thoughts on how I came to acquire the sword from a family friend and WW2 veteran, it’s origins (era, swordsmith, location, history at that time, etc) which I plan to pass on to my sons one day along with the sword.  So your input is very much appreciated! 
 

Warm regards,

 

Mark 

[SteveM]

Sekishū, Nagahama is a location in present day Shimane Prefecture. Nagahama is a small area inside the city of Hamada, Shimane Prefecture. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamada,_Shimane

 

Usually that sort of location in the inscription is a way for the swordsmith to identify himself, where he comes from, where he works (or both). 

It shouldn't be confused with Seki (the city/location) in Mino province. Seki the city isn't called Sekishū. (Seki the city is located in what is called Nōshū). 

 

To see the style of the sword, we'd need near macro photos of the blade itself. 

 

The book that you want is Markus Sesko's Index of Japanese Swordsmiths (A-M). But there is very little information on this smith, just a small one-line reference. (Even if you spoke Japanese, I don't think you would find much information on him. There just isn't a lot of background info on a lot of smiths. 

[Bazza]

Do I correctly recall that Nagahama is also the seat of a castle from Hideyoshi's day??  I recall a katana I once had (SEKI SHU?) NAGAHAMA JU KIYOTSUGU (SAKU?)???

 

BaZZa.

[SteveM]

Hideyoshi's Nagahama is a different Nagahama from Sekishū Nagahama.  

Hideyoshi's Nagahama would be Ōmi-no-kuni (近江国) or 江州 (Kōshū) for short. This might be starting to get confusing.

 

To summarize

1. 石州長濱 Sekishū Nagahama (present day Shimane Prefecture). 石州 is short for 石見国 (Iwami-no-kuni). This is where Mark's sword is from. 

2. 江州長濱 Kōshū Nagahama (present day Shiga Prefecture). 江州 is short for 近江国 (Ōmi-no-kuni). This is where Hideyoshi's castle is/was.

3. 濃州関 Nōshū Seki (present day Gifu Prefecture). 濃州 is short for 美濃国 (Mino-no-kuni). Famous for swords, but not for the sword in this thread. 

 

Nagahama literally means "long beach". There are a lot of places named Nagahama in Japan. It can also be someone's family name. 

[MarkCB]

Hi Steve. That is such a wonderful answer. Totally answers my questions about location of Nagahama and Sekishu.  Thank you!  
 

Also, happy to provide more pictures to help with style identification. What views would you like?
 

 

[SteveM]

I'm not the best person to to ask about kantei/appraisal, but some here may want to see the kinds of photos you can find on the dealer sites. Usually close-ups of the tip, a close-up of the hamon, the notched area where the polished edge meets the nakago (tang), etc. Anything that might show the grain pattern in the steel (if any) and the patterns in the hamon will help. If all of this is obscured by rust or haze, then it will be very difficult to make anything other than a vague appraisal. 

 

 

[Mark]

Mark

 

where are you located? Maybe there is a group or club in your area. Having someone see it in hand may help

[MarkCB]

I live in Missouri Mark.  Anyone in this forum nearby?