Museums in London

[paulb]

The Unji you mention was one (one of two Juyo blades) of the 53 swords donated to the Armouries by the family of my very dear friend and teacher, Deryck Ingham. The other Juyo blade attributed to Yamato-Shizu is on permanent exhibition in the Tower of London. The Armouries team are very enthusiastic and always support us fantastically when we have study days there. Overall I would guess they have over 200 blades and some important armour. One of the most important is currently at Buckingham Palace for the Japan exhibition in the Queens Gallery. This is the armour presented to James II as a diplomatic gift in the 17th century.

You are correct that both the V&A and the British museum have stronger collections of fittings. The Ashmolean in Oxford and Pitt Rivers in Cambridge also have good examples of fittings although with limited numbers on display.

Regarding the Unji, it was purchased at auction by Deryck when it was sold as part of the A.Z. Freeman collection. Professor Freeman was based in the USA, and I believe he purchased the blade directly from Japan.

[Gakusee]

To Paul’s excellent post I would add that the BM has probably an unparalleled-in-the-U.K. collection of swords but indeed usually only a handful are exhibited. It all depends on the curator’s forte and predilection.

However, we have been privileged to have had private study sessions at the BM as part of organised ToKen of GB meetings. Some of the swords we have seen are very special and precious. 

[Rivkin]

The only first tier collection of swords in Western Museums, in my unhumble opinion, is MFA Boston. Western collectors in 1900s were fittings (soft metal especially) afficionado and were guided in this direction by Japanese dealers. There are a few good blades here and there, but overall its unimpressive and a first tier private collector (Dmitry Pechalov as an example) will have a notch better set of blades. With Boston, Ogawa Morihiro de facto handled (handles?) the access and despite it being an American museum, the collection is typically not open to non-Japanese, and even with Japanese women there are issues.

 

Before 1900s, the presence of Japanese blades in the West (or the East) was sporadic. Chinese sources are surprisingly silent until 16th century, at which time the units armed in Japanese fashion were acknowledged and openly discussed even in military "manuals" of sorts, and overall between Amur, Kurils and Korea you find a lot of Japanese blades and imitations from 16-17th century specifically. Mostly its hirazukuri ko wakizashi, there are also a lot of tsuba.

Vietnam preferred daito Japanese blades in about the same period as well, some made their way from there further to western collections.

Since export of blades was prohibited during Edo, this popularity basically came to abrupt end. There were exceptions. For example, Russian trade and raids on Hokkaido from 1779 till 1807 yielded a number of low grade blades, which were sent to what today is St.Petersburg's "Kunstkamera".

 

There are very early (before 16th century) events, but unfortunately those survived as influences rather than specific Japanese pieces. Tsuba and habaki were likely brought over from Japan, tsuba probably twice, as until 14-15th century continental tsuba can be rather rudimental in design, and then we see a sudden transition to a more round, symmetric form with decorations.

[Rivkin]

Actually upon checking the tropheys from 1807 Russian raid are still identifiable, here are a few cannons:

 

 

 

[Kinoko Suzuki]

20 hours ago, paulb said:

あなたが言及した Unji は、私の親愛なる友人であり教師でもある Deryck Ingham の家族から武器庫に寄贈された 53 本の剣のうちの 1 本 (2 本の Juyo ブレードのうちの 1 本) でした。ヤマトシズに起因するもう 1 つの十葉の刃は、ロンドン塔に常設展示されています。Armouries チームは非常に熱心で、私たちがそこで勉強するときはいつも素晴らしいサポートをしてくれます。全体として、彼らは 200 を超えるブレードといくつかの重要な鎧を持っていると思います。最も重要なものの 1 つは、現在バッキンガム宮殿で開催されているクイーンズ ギャラリーでの展覧会です。17世紀にジェームズ2世に外交上の贈答品として贈られた甲冑です。

V&A と大英博物館の両方がより強力な付属品のコレクションを持っていることは間違いありません。オックスフォードのアシュモリアンとケンブリッジのピットリバーズにも、限られた数しか展示されていませんが、フィッティングの良い例があります。

Unjiに関しては、Deryck Inghamコレクションの一部として販売されたときにDeryckによってオークションで購入されました. フリーマン教授はアメリカに拠点を置いていて、日本から直接ブレードを購入したと思います。

Thank you for giving me detailed information.
The collection collected by Deryck Ingham was definitely a first class collection from my point of view.
I would like to know the whole picture, including detailed information on each of the collections and what else he collected.
He also owned Shizu Saburo Kane, and as I recall, there was even a Kanegen II and Ishu Naotsuna, so I can assume that he was quite a collector, even from a Japanese point of view.
I would have liked to have met him and heard his story even once.
 I don't know the details of the A.Z. Freeman collection, so I would like to know about that as well.

 

[Gakusee]

20 hours ago, Rivkin said:

The only first tier collection of swords in Western Museums, in my unhumble opinion, is MFA Boston. Western collectors in 1900s were fittings (soft metal especially) afficionado and were guided in this direction by Japanese dealers. There are a few good blades here and there, but overall its unimpressive and a first tier private collector (Dmitry Pechalov as an example) will have a notch better set of blades. With Boston, Ogawa Morihiro de facto handled (handles?) the access and despite it being an American museum, the collection is typically not open to non-Japanese, and even with Japanese women there are issues.

 

Before 1900s, the presence of Japanese blades in the West (or the East) was sporadic. Chinese sources are surprisingly silent until 16th century, at which time the units armed in Japanese fashion were acknowledged and openly discussed even in military "manuals" of sorts, and overall between Amur, Kurils and Korea you find a lot of Japanese blades and imitations from 16-17th century specifically. Mostly its hirazukuri ko wakizashi, there are also a lot of tsuba.

Vietnam preferred daito Japanese blades in about the same period as well, some made their way from there further to western collections.

Since export of blades was prohibited during Edo, this popularity basically came to abrupt end. There were exceptions. For example, Russian trade and raids on Hokkaido from 1779 till 1807 yielded a number of low grade blades, which were sent to what today is St.Petersburg's "Kunstkamera".

 

There are very early (before 16th century) events, but unfortunately those survived as influences rather than specific Japanese pieces. Tsuba and habaki were likely brought over from Japan, tsuba probably twice, as until 14-15th century continental tsuba can be rather rudimental in design, and then we see a sudden transition to a more round, symmetric form with decorations.

Kiril

 

With all due respect the topic is about museums in London. Extensions to the rest of the U.K. are also fine and pertinent.  At the end of the day some of the Royal Armouries collection was originally in London before :), even thought the Japanese swords were mostly not. 

We are not comparing London (or with the above extension, UK) museums with the Met or MFA, which are both exquisite and well endowed institutions in their own right. We are also not comparing them to the collections put together by modern-day multimillionaires (whether it is the Soshu collection of Dmitry or the Samurai Museum in Berlin; let alone the huge Japanese collections put together by 2-3 very large and affluent individuals in Japan, or the smaller but pinnacle-oriented collections of some Japanese dealers/collectors). The latter are financially stronger than the original benefactors to the aforementioned U.K. (and probably US) museums and it is no surprise that their collections are superior. 

Also, one needs to put things into perspective and ascribe aesthetic or historic (not only monetary) value to individual blades within the collections. So, is it more valuable to have a few Soshu blades (but not Masamune for example) or a number of Ko-Bizen / Ko-Aoe or to have 14,000 blades or to have only 100 but half of them TJ/JuBi and above? These are all complex nuances. 
 

However, you are right that a lot of the early collectors of Japanese swords (19 century)  simply did not have the knowledge or understanding to build a superior collection, even if they had the financial muscle. Sometimes they bought fakes, there was no “papering” of such blades (and the concomitant research by the NBTHK or NTHK), they were indeed led by dealers or post-Victorian fashions. 

[Rivkin]

I have a tendency to forcibly broaden the aspects of the topic, the point was - there is not much to see in western museums unless its tosogu, which is often first class, or select items from the 16th century, when Japan was more active abroad.

I am not a rich man, very far from it. I am in a gutter, collection-wise: a dumpster diver who papers swords, which means I'll unlikely will have a first rate collection. I am also not as "lucky" (whatever enters this term) as some dumpster divers I know.

Yet even for me neither of the names mentioned on this page is something "unknown", put it this way. These are not per se exceptionally rare items, many hundreds of examples to each attribution. "Ko Bizen" is frankly nowhere close to Awataguchi Hisakuni or signed Yasutsuna, which is the top rate collector stuff and practically impossible to "discover". 

You can see at any American sword show probably 1,000 blades. Does it enrich one's knowledge? Sometimes, and only because you can actually hold them in hands. Mumei attributed to Unju or Kaneuji, behind glass... Why on earth this would be seen as an attraction worthy of a special visit?

Whether to own Masamune or not for the first tier Soshu collector is often a choice. Many do not believe in the name, for them its like buying Go with some traditional pedigree with a significant price multiplier.

[Gakusee]

1 hour ago, Rivkin said:

I have a tendency to forcibly broaden the aspects of the topic, the point was - there is not much to see in western museums unless its tosogu, which is often first class, or select items from the 16th century, when Japan was more active abroad.

I am not a rich man, very far from it. I am in a gutter, collection-wise: a dumpster diver who papers swords, which means I'll unlikely will have a first rate collection. I am also not as "lucky" (whatever enters this term) as some dumpster divers I know.

Yet even for me neither of the names mentioned on this page is something "unknown", put it this way. These are not per se exceptionally rare items, many hundreds of examples to each attribution. "Ko Bizen" is frankly nowhere close to Awataguchi Hisakuni or signed Yasutsuna, which is the top rate collector stuff and practically impossible to "discover". 

You can see at any American sword show probably 1,000 blades. Does it enrich one's knowledge? Sometimes, and only because you can actually hold them in hands. Mumei attributed to Unju or Kaneuji, behind glass... Why on earth this would be seen as an attraction worthy of a special visit?

Whether to own Masamune or not for the first tier Soshu collector is often a choice. Many do not believe in the name, for them its like buying Go with some traditional pedigree with a significant price multiplier.

Well, I beg to differ and therein lies the beauty of this hobby - different people have different tastes and preferences. 
However, as we delve more deeply of course the devil is in the detail. Of course, not just broader categories are insightful but specifics. 
So, during our BM viewing we could hold and see zaimei Tsunemitsu (rarer than Yasutsuna), Tsunetsugu (ditto),  Yoshikane, Sueyuki, Shintogo (only behind glass), various glorious Fukuoka and Yoshioka Ichimonji. I know they have various named Sukesada and also some Ise Sengo blades. I do not remember many of the lesser stuff but across 500 BM blades there are bound to be some sleepers. So, the BM collection is far superior to the Royal Armouries and V&A (even though the V&A has a fairly decent blade, with kinzogan to Masamune, which is a top Soshu blade - now whether it is a Masamune or top Shizu, that is too big a call for my modest knowledge but the Honami whose mei is there is one of the respected, pre-generation-14 ones). 
 

Next, it is true that Ko-Hoki Yasutsuna is rare but there were two Yasutsuna at the last Nov 2022 DTI - one mumei and very healthy (it went to a friend) and another one, less healthy but zaimei that personally intrigued me as I like signed blades. Both could could be held for a chunk but not unreasonable amounts. And the DTI zaimei Yasutsuna was not a “top collector “ stuff. There was another (third) one two months ago, also zaimei and slightly better than the DTI zaimei one but it sold in late summer. 
 

Regarding Masamune - please let us not even go there….

[Rivkin]

A Japanese national can fillout a simple form on a website of Fuji, TNM, KNM, Tokugawa and a half a dozen of other museums, registering to see in hand specific blades and study them.

You have to have a Japanese passport and some minimal standing, though I assume there are exceptions.

With Japanese passport and minimal connections at NBTHK you can view in hand swords at MFA Boston.

 

Why on Earth would someone from Japan strive to inspect "Ise Sengo" behind a glass in London???

[Gakusee]

7 hours ago, Rivkin said:

.

 

Why on Earth would someone from Japan strive to inspect "Ise Sengo" behind a glass in London???

Well, I see absolutely no reason unless they live in London permanently. So, I do not see the relevance here whatsoever.
People asked about museums in London and the fact that a Japanese individual asked and commented about what he saw in the U.K. does not preclude the same individual from seeing much better and many more swords of top quality in Japan. 
 

People in Japan have an almost unbound capacity to see masterpieces. At museums or even at the DTI or at dealers. The TNM Kokuho exhibition running at the TNM at the moment has around 20 blades including Dojigiri, Mikazuki, O-tenta, Kikko, KoRyu, and so on.  I have to say the Dojigiri was nice but the O-Kanehira outshone it. 
 

In fact, the smart thing to do, if living in Japan, is become an NBTHK member for a reasonably modest annual fee, and in their monthly sessions they often roll out JuBi, JuBu and Kokuho swords to study in hand. Despite being a life member, unfortunately I have never been there to benefit from a session like that. However, from friends I know that even regional chapters of the NBTHK outside of Tokyo often have TJ+ and JuBi blades to study. The photos of their sessions are publicly available on social media. 
 

Separately, some of the more prominent dealers hold monthly study and kantei sessions, sometimes under instruction, which are very educational too. We are talking about different types of Masamune, different Sadamune, different Mitsutada, Moriie, Nagamitsu, Gojo, Awataguchi, etc placed next to each other for comparison and study. For that, it is true you need to be part of the circle and have the right friendships, but that applies everywhere. Many of these are behind closed doors and unfortunately not open to everyone. In fact, often such events (even dealer auctions by the way) are by invitation only. 

 

Alas, indeed, the best place to study and appreciate this hobby is indeed Japan and the Japanese nationals have an advantage over non-Japanese because of living there, having access, speaking the language etc.  This is all natural. We can try from

outside to work hard on it, and go from time to time, but that is no substitute.