Displaying of sword in the UK.

[Paz]

Hi all, hope you are all well.

 

I searched through and read up on some old threads on how people display their nihontos. This question is specifically geared towards the UK collector's, as the climate obviously here is not like that of Australia or certain  parts of USA. Which means different humidity which leads to different maintenance of swords. 

 

From experience having modern production swords, oil and choji maintenance isn't required as much through out the year. 

 

However with nihontos I guess its totally different business.  Do any of you UK folks display your blade outside a saya in a glass cabinet ? Similar to museum pieces. 

 

I understand that this may be bad for the blade and will require more maintenance.

 

I looked at few member photos of their display and did see glass cabinets being used. 

 

All my modern swords are in saya and on racks. However I'm thinking of giving more special treatment to a nihonto. 

 

This may come across as a naive questions to ask. But I'd rather ask it than be sorry.

 

Thanks. 

 

[mas4t0]

I'm in the UK and wondered the same thing several years ago.

 

The issue really is humidity. Steel rusts when it come into contact with water and oxygen – both are needed for rusting to occur.

 

A shirasaya acts, in a certain sense, as a very localised dehumidifier and seals the blade from the external environment.

 

I prefer to be safe, so I wouldn't risk displaying a blade in full polish outside of a sealed and humidity controlled cabinet.

 

I haven't had a suitable cabinet built, and I don't keep Nihonto on permanent display as I know I'd stop appreciating them.

 

Without fully controlled humidity, there's no way to be absolutely sure and there is some element of risk involved.

 

I'm speaking of bare blades here. I don't see much point displaying an oiled blade. I would assume with an oiled blade that so long as the barrier layer of oil is clean and intact, it should offer adequate protection.

 

There's a lot of variables though and in any case a shirasaya is almost invariably your best bet.

 

It's not without purpose that the Japanese use shirasaya for blades and Kiri boxes for fittings.

[Gakusee]

Ok, gents, this has been covered several times on this board. 
Humidity in the air and its composition will cause the steel blade to rust and therefore you counteract it by:

- oiling the blades (very thin, invisible, film, not the usual thick oily and greasy splotches that many people tend to err on the side of) and when beading occurs - wipe the excess with paper tissue. The paper tissue will leave a minimal oily layer in any case;

- containers or receptacles (shirasaya or controlled cabinet);

- dehumidifier in the room or inside the cabinet. 

 

That is how the NBTHK stores and exhibits blades (large dehumidifier and temperature system connected to display cabinets) and so do dealers (floor-based smaller dehumidifiers)  in Japan. Often they do not oil blades much or at all but they have dehumidifiers. 
 

Some people are more adventurous and do not oil their blades in the UK, even when they live in very humid areas,  but I personally both oil and have a permanently plugged dehumidifier. 
Other options include large but unsightly rechargeable desiccant pouches. I am not a fan of Dri Rods due to the heat / potential fire hazard in the display space or in close proximity to a blade or shirasaya. 

[mas4t0]

 

1 hour ago, Gakusee said:

Ok, gents, this has been covered several times on this board. 
Humidity in the air and its composition will cause the steel blade to rust and therefore you counteract it by:

- oiling the blades (very thin, invisible, film, not the usual thick oily and greasy splotches that many people tend to err on the side of) and when beading occurs - wipe the excess with paper tissue. The paper tissue will leave a minimal oily layer in any case;

- containers or receptacles (shirasaya or controlled cabinet);

- dehumidifier in the room or inside the cabinet. 

 

That is how the NBTHK stores and exhibits blades (large dehumidifier and temperature system connected to display cabinets) and so do dealers (floor-based smaller dehumidifiers)  in Japan. Often they do not oil blades much or at all but they have dehumidifiers. 
 

Some people are more adventurous and do not oil their blades in the UK, even when they live in very humid areas,  but I personally both oil and have a permanently plugged dehumidifier. 
Other options include large but unsightly rechargeable desiccant pouches. I am not a fan of Dri Rods due to the heat / potential fire hazard in the display space or in close proximity to a blade or shirasaya. 

 

Michael,

 

What RH level and temperature are you maintaing?

 

Do you have any info on what levels the NBTHK are maintaing within their display cabinets?

 

It doesn't particularly matter, if you're oiling too, as you're maintaing a barrier layer over the steel; but for bare blades this information would be very helpful.

 

I've never liked the idea of a dehumidifier in the room, and an unsealed cabinet with a bare blade, as the humidity you ideally want for a piece of steel is well below what's best for people.

 

Additionally you'd likely need several dehumidifiers around the house, in much of the UK, to maintain those low levels; given that the water vapour will readily diffuse in from other parts of the house.

 

Ultimately, to protect iron and its alloys from rust, the surface needs to be separated from air and water. Any means which achieves this will work.

[drbvac]

I have displayed my swords for years with a proper coat of oil in this cabinet that has an electric rod often used in gun safes that heats the air slightly and as it circulates in the cabinet it reduces the humidity. Never had any problems with rust and as I like to see my blades on display it has served me well for a long time.

 

https://www.lockdown.com/products/moisture-control/dehumidifier-rods/golden-rod-dehumidifier-rod/725721.html

 

 

[mas4t0]

2 hours ago, drbvac said:

I have displayed my swords for years with a proper coat of oil in this cabinet that has an electric rod often used in gun safes that heats the air slightly and as it circulates in the cabinet it reduces the humidity. Never had any problems with rust and as I like to see my blades on display it has served me well for a long time.

 

https://www.lockdown.com/products/moisture-control/dehumidifier-rods/golden-rod-dehumidifier-rod/725721.html

 

 

 

Just FYI, there's no mechanism by which heat rods can reduce humidity. As far as humidity is concerned, they only really help prevent condensation.

 

A real dehumidifier removes water vapour from the air, usually through either condensation or absorption.

 

The reaction between oxygen, iron and water involves water vapour, so can still happen with a heating rod present.

 

The barrier layer of oil is providing the protection from corrosion.

[Alex A]

Always great to see Brians display.

 

Just a few things ive learned you may already be aware of.

 

Dont display swords near an outside wall or radiator.

Dont display swords above which is a boiler, in my experience seen too many spring a leak.

When you go on holiday move your swords upstairs and turn the water off at the mains (witnessed a disaster once), preferably leave them in a locked gun cabinet (get them cheap on ebay)

Move them out of the way if any friends or family visiting.

 

Lastly, dont buy any blade that shows any sign of spider rust.

[Gakusee]

Mark

I maintain approximately 45-50% humidity and temperature of 20-25 degrees. In line with the NBTHK. No need for multiple dehumidifiers - just the one, where my swords are. 
Now when the radiator comes on due to winter coldness, humidity drops to 35-40% sometimes but that is when it becomes too hot, so I try to control for that by reducing temperature. 

[Paz]

It's Brian's display which intrigued me. 

[Markdd]

Hi,

even though I am new to the Japanese sword I have collected Militaria for over 50 years, something of every thing thing to maintain a comfortable environment for every thing is a challenge, about 20 years ago I had built a display cabinet for the more precious things in my collection, trial and error to what I now runs ,As Michael S says about 45-50% takes care of the rust aspect I keep some in and some out of scabbards/shirashasa others on display. I initially sealed the display cases  but that did not work as mildew can become a problem, I removed the seals now I force air through a filter system to prevent mildew and dust from a dehumidified room, the new desiccant style dehumidifiers are a lot better than the older compressor type as they also heat the air to provide a more stable atmosphere, This year I am going to build a dedicated sword display cabinet to make them easier to get in and out and it does not have to be as deep as my cabinets.

Brian B I do like your cabinet.

Mark

[Paz]

On 2/10/2022 at 8:39 PM, Markdd said:

Hi,

even though I am new to the Japanese sword I have collected Militaria for over 50 years, something of every thing thing to maintain a comfortable environment for every thing is a challenge, about 20 years ago I had built a display cabinet for the more precious things in my collection, trial and error to what I now runs ,As Michael S says about 45-50% takes care of the rust aspect I keep some in and some out of scabbards/shirashasa others on display. I initially sealed the display cases  but that did not work as mildew can become a problem, I removed the seals now I force air through a filter system to prevent mildew and dust from a dehumidified room, the new desiccant style dehumidifiers are a lot better than the older compressor type as they also heat the air to provide a more stable atmosphere, This year I am going to build a dedicated sword display cabinet to make them easier to get in and out and it does not have to be as deep as my cabinets.

Brian B I do like your cabinet.

Mark

I'm sure with the climate we have in Britain,  that we can use displays similar to Brian's. Including led lights.  Im sure I can find a suitable glass cabinet with lights somewhere 🤔 

[Bugyotsuji]

I think one has to make a choice between what is on permanent display and what is not, and when to switch on the display lights and for how long. 

 

In Japan I often see collectors and dealers eyeing their visitor, listening to them, and then deciding if and what to bring out and show. For security reasons alone (different meanings to security here) it makes sense to remain in control and not to have everything up front and on display.

[IanB]

All, In my opinion Piers has a valid point. Swords permanently displayed in glass cases not only look as if they are museum exhibits, but after a while become simply part of the furniture of the room. All of my swords have bags I make from old kimono, or fabric scraps, in which they live. They are thus protected from light and knocks whilst standing, leaning together, in  the corner of my study. There the temperature is relatively constant and the humidity relatively low. As a result there is no reason to oil the blades provided, I wipe them clean before returning them to their saya. The process of un-bagging them, to look at them, is like discovering them afresh.

Ian Bottomley