To The more experienced members ....

[Paz]

Hi all. I've recently introduced myself in the introduction and have a question of curiosity, and is my first thread. 

 

A friend of mine recommended me to checkout  nihonto from lanes armoury Brighton UK.  He was also in the market for nihonto and asked me to visit them or check out their site. 

 

However after more research and asking around forums I decided to avoid purchasing from lanes due to their apparant pricing of nihonto. 

 

As a nihonto novice, I was made aware that I may be paying far more for nihonto than I should be. Before I contact my freind and tell him to go elsewhere ( aoi, nihontoart, esword). 

I would like to know how much more exactly are lanes charging for nihonto on their site ??.

Is it a matter of hundreds or a thousands.?

 

I wonder if the more keen eyed or more  experienced members are able to tell by looking at some of their  inventory, and sword descriptions.

 

This is not attack on lanes armoury at all , I'm sure they are great people who are knowledgeable about their swords . And of course are dealers and need to make a profit. Also being in the uk ,they don't need to apply for a permit to Japan's MOE of course. And are easy to buy from. Plus you can visit them. 

 

The only minor thing I do critique is that they don't have the technical details of all swords and fill it in with period history which anyone can Google. However I'm very sure they are selling true legit swords. It's just the value which is making me scratch my head.

 

Thanks for the help 

Go to Japanese sword section.

 

https://www.thelanesarmoury.co.uk/

 

 

 

 

[Ian]

I would advise to join the Token Society of great britain and attend some of our meetings (zoom and a few physical meetings atm)

 

https://to-ken.uk/aboutus/membership.html

 

Best 

 

Ian

[Jussi Ekholm]

I know I commented to you on another forum but in general I'd be stunned if they sell the items in the ballpark of their asking prices (which I am sure they do as they have been running business for a long time). I am not a business savvy person and my hats off to them as they seem to show they can pull it off.

[Brian]

Hard question to answer. I am sure you will get some pm's.
It's a fact of collecting that some places and dealers will just be more expensive. UK is more expensive than USA. Japan is generally cheaper than Europe.
For Fairbairn Sykes collecting, I refuse to buy from UK....USA is half the price.
It's just how it goes. As for dealers, some have high overheads or staff complements. Sometimes it's justified. And sometimes a certain dealer is just plain expensive. Research is vital.

[Paz]

Thanks Ian. I use to be a member of the BKA, and membership allowed me to purchase iaito from abroad. Does the token society membership work the same way for nihonto.  Thanks 

[Paz]

6 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

I know I commented to you on another forum but in general I'd be stunned if they sell the items in the ballpark of their asking prices (which I am sure they do as they have been running business for a long time). I am not a business savvy person and my hats off to them as they seem to show they can pull it off.

Hi Jussi ,you did.

 

My curiosity got the better of me, and it just made me wonder how much are we paying compared to alternatives from a local vendor. 

 

@Brianthanks , seems to make more sense

[Jussi Ekholm]

There are many good vendors in the UK too. I think UK guys can give good recommendations and info but mostly in private messages as publically discussing stuff like this can be bit problematic.

 

In my personal opinion I do not think Lanes Armoury is geared towards "hardcore" Japanese sword collectors but more towards militaria guys want to get a Japanese sword. I do not mean bad with that comment even though I agree that it can be taken very negatively.

[nickm]

From what I have found personally keep an eye on the for sale section on this forum. Also Ray Singer that is a member has a website with some amazing things reasonably priced

[PNSSHOGUN]

They certainly have some good swords but the rambling, optimistic descriptions and poor photos don't match the delusional premiums added to current market prices. Nihonto is a field where price does not always mean quality and vice versa.

 

Definitely best to join the Token society, meet with some collectors and go from there.

[Paz]

5 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

They certainly have some good swords but the rambling, optimistic descriptions and poor photos combined don't match the delusional premiums added to current market prices. Nihonto is a field where price does not always mean quality and vice versa.

 

Definitely best to join the Token society, meet with some collectors and go from there.

 I plan to get a membership with them. 

 

And I agree. They have some amazing pieces from what I can see which tempted me. But then there wasn't much info on the blade and the price was quite high. 

[raaay]

Hi Paz 

 

do yourself a big favour join the Token Society , they have reginal meetings through out the year  all over the UK , even go to the Birmingham Arms fair   and meet fellow collectors and see what's available  , lots of UK based dealers as well.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Paz,

I've PM'd you with my thoughts on the Lanes Armoury.

[mas4t0]

I'm in the UK and have never been a member of the GB Token Society.

 

I have plenty of contacts in Japan and only generally buy Nihonto from Japan, I've never bought from a UK based dealer.

 

Importing is generally not a problem.

 

If you don't regularly visit Japan, it would be best to join the Token Society.

 

Even if you do it's probably best to.

[paulb]

Mark

I have been a member of the Token Society of GB for more than 30 years and it has contributed a huge amount to my learning and generated numerous long time friendships.

I have bought swords from Japan USA and Europe  the key isn't where it is but who you are buying from,  are they decent people with a good reputation.  

I am sure you would be welcomed if you decided to join us

 

[Paz]

Thanks Paul. I learnt that lesson from production swords. But the risks are far heavier with nihonto as you are paying thousands with only photos to go by at times. Usually with modern production blades there will be reviews, videos, and more opinions , but they are mass produced swords and not actual pieces of history. 

 

 

[mas4t0]

Thank you Paul.

 

I'm well aware that it's not where, but whom, I've just never seen anything for sale in the UK that I was overly taken by.

 

My above comment was heavily truncated for the sake of brevity, with the intention of expressing that membership is not required to import Nihonto and that it is not difficult.

 

I've had a few pieces from dealers in the US, but it's been mostly contemporary commissions direct from smiths in Japan.

 

You are definitely right though and I'm sure that I'd have been better off as a member for the past decade.

[Alex A]

Occasionally i do look over the lanes site because from time to time they do have swords with attractive koshirae.

 

You will rarely find papered swords , the reason they gave me years ago was that sending swords abroad for shinsa was a lot of hassle and expense, which i suppose is true. As someone new to the hobby, buying a sword with papers will bring you peace of mind so you may find buying from the Lanes armoury difficult unless you really know what you are looking at and have it in hand.

 

There are plenty of people looking for authentic Samurai swords in the UK that dont really care about papers or the blades in top notch polish etc, so they will never be short on customers.

 

If someone goes beyond this stage and digs deeper, buys books and learns a little, they tend to get a lot more picky and look for swords that suit their interests, hence why a lot of swords get imported into the UK from overseas.

 

In contrast, met a few guys over recent years that will never buy a sword from overseas, they need to see it "in hand", as buying from images online is not always plain sailing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[paulb]

Mark is right you don't need to belong to a society or club to import a sword at present.  However proof of membership of a society or martial arts club can be used as proof of a legitimate interest and reason to want to want one

 

[Gakusee]

I have never regretted joining the To-Ken Society - in fact one of my best decisions ever, together with following this portal/community for well over 16-17 years. The NMB provided theoretical knowledge while the To-Ken meetings enabled me to see swords and koshirae first hand and hear more experienced people describe these items while teaching us. Of course, once one builds an own network of contacts, then it becomes easier to navigate the field solo. But still, the social and educational elements are valuable.

 

In informal and interpersonal meetings, one can learn and share a lot more than publicly..... 

 

People sometimes focus too much on price. Price is an important element of a purchase but so is the quality of the item, the guarantees, the deferred purchasing methods that some offer, the trustworthiness, the investment in a relationship with someone who might offer you items that will never be published officially on a website et cetera. 

 

Also, my main piece of advice is to defer a purchase until you can make your own judgment rather than rely on judgements by others. If it takes years, so be it. It might be better than burn money, burn bridges/relationships, get disappointed, acquire something that in a year you will not like anymore as you have changed your mind or did not know what you were buying in the first place. 

 

 

[ChrisW]

Joining your local Token Kai is always a good idea! Access to more knowledge, materials, swords, and people who are willing to give you better prices and a line to what you're looking for.

[Paz]

Thanks all I'm planning to apply for membership this week. 

[IanB]

An interesting thread indeed. The UK is fortunate in that contact with Japan occurred not only during the 16th and 17th centuries, but also very soon after Japan was 'opened ' during the 19th century. For a while during the late 19th century there was a considerable interest in Japanese art and culture during which a considerable quantity of Japanese art of all types, including swords and fittings, was imported into the UK. Retailers such as Liberties in London sold vast quantities of lacquer work and other treasures, and if stories are to believe, even used woodblock prints as wrapping paper. Other tales are told of tsuba, tied in dozens on a string, being sold on the London docks, having served as ballast in ships. There is even a fleeting mention of a Japanese armour in one of the Sherlock Holmes stories.

 

All this points to the fact that there still remains a considerable number of armour, swords and considerable quantities of fittings in the UK. We are also fortunate in that some of the earlier collectors have left a corpus of valuable reference material in publications such as the Journal of the Japan Society. This initial enthusiasm for all things Japanese dwindled around the close of the 19th century, becoming positively antagonistic after WWII. It is to such people as B.W. Robinson, whose writings during the post war period, rekindled the current widespread interest. To this earlier category must be added the not inconsiderable number of swords brought back by soldiers who fought in the Far East during WWII. 

 

All of this preamble leads up to the obvious statement that we in the UK are blessed in living in a country rich in swords, armour and fittings. Whist there now exist severe restrictions on the acquisition of swords from abroad, plenty of swords are available at arms fairs and many more are available from public auctions. Some of these items are of considerable merit, many having belonged to those who began collecting after WWII and who are now dying off. There are lots of good items out there if you take the trouble to learn what is worth having.

Ian Bottomley