Fatal Flaw?

ShuShinKan · February 26, 2009

Hi everybody,

today I had the chance to take a look on the Tadamitsu blade discussed in an earlier thread. The blade is in good polish, it was like a mirror.

I wonder some things about.

The following pictures are taken with 10 x magnification

I have seen a small Flaw on the top of the boshi/mune, maybe 12 mm behind the point:

http://www.kvarnberg.se/ShuShinKan/KMKa ... wOnTip.jpg

I have seen another flaw in the bohi: When I get it right it is a shinogi ware :

http://www.kvarnberg.se/ShuShinKan/KMKa ... w_bohi.jpg

Additionally there is a bigger flaw: (big means max 3mm)

http://www.kvarnberg.se/ShuShinKan/KMKa ... wBlade.jpg

Could you please tell me if one of them counts as a fatal flaw?

None of them is in the hamon or borders with it. Anyhow, they are too deep to be erased with a polish.

I have read that flaws are quite normal and I am aware that the sword is not a masterpiece, compared with other masters work.

Another question I have:

Is it normal that the mirror like polish is only in the upper part of the blade (when you imagine the blade held horizontal with ha downwards)?

Thanks for indications!

Brian · February 26, 2009

Check your links (edit the original post to replace the links)

No pics there.

Btw...the shinogi-ji is burnished with a special burnishing tool to be brighter than the rest.

This is normal and correct, although a decent job will still allow the hada to be seen there even with the burnishing.

Brian

ShuShinKan · February 26, 2009

Hi Brian, thanks for the hint, I saw it right away, but it took me two minutes to fix it. You are alert!

Jean · February 26, 2009

It is not flows but Artic crevices (taken through magnifying lens) :D . It is called Fukure. Carbon air pocket which opened upon for example in the polishing process.

John A Stuart · February 26, 2009

Very interesting pictures. I felt like I was looking at pictures of Jupiter or something. Anyhow, because they focus on such small areas they lose context. Nothing looks fatal from what I can see though. John

ShuShinKan · February 26, 2009

Thanks so far!

Jean!

Just to be clear, the picture from the bohi , i did not mean the spot like thing, i ment the crack like thing that is right at the edge of bohi.

http://www.kvarnberg.se/ShuShinKan/KMKa ... _bohi1.jpg

loiner1965 · February 26, 2009

now that could be fatal as it could be classed as a crows beak but its hard to tell from your pics....can you move further away then retake so we can see where it is etc

ShuShinKan · February 26, 2009

Unfortunately not, because the sword is some 100 km aways from me and the magnifier is in my car.

I can describe it:

Guess holding the sword horizonally in your hands, tip away from you, ha downwards.

At mid length of the blade in right hand side bohi it is placed on the lower edge of the bohi making a tiny pocket that you can feel slightly when you clean the blade with bamboo paper. This is in the high-polished part of the blade (shinogi-ji). Hardly to see with naked eye. It looks like the lamiation got loose on this spot.

Next time I will make a map of the blade and give the spots numbers.

Thank you for your comments.

Feel free to shoot on!

Jean · February 27, 2009

From your picture, it looks like a potential new fukure

loiner1965 · February 27, 2009

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/kizu.htm

please look here on mr steins site which is most informative

Jacques D. · February 27, 2009

Hi,

It's a ware, an horizontal flaw (bad welding).

Jean · February 27, 2009

Forget this insignificant ware, what I was talking about is this, which could be an underlying fukure

Brian · February 27, 2009

Yeah..looks like a fukure that opened up a bit on one side.

However these ultra-magnified shots don't work for me...we can't see them as they are normally seen when the pics are through an electron microscope

Either way, look like normal flaws to me, nothing fatal unless they are in the hamon. Just part of the norm in blades that aren't perfect. Fukure are ugly though..especially when they open up.

Brian

Tavroch · February 27, 2009

@Herr Schmidt:

You wrote:

"when you clean the blade with bamboo paper"

I hope not; bamboo's got slilica in it, hard stuff, might scratch the blade.

But you probably meant rice paper?

ShuShinKan · February 27, 2009

Hi Tavroch,

thanks for the correction.

Actually i do not know what this was for a paper.

It came out of a sword-maintainance box of the owner.....

Anyhow I could feel the spot...

Hi Jean,

You seem to be always two steps ahead me!

Saw you like fishing. Should come to sweden and get some pajk. We have plenty....

Henry Stewart · February 28, 2009

Sir,

I think the illustration by Jean is one I would need a closer look at. It might well not be fatal but it sure is ugly.

Henry

Jean · February 28, 2009

Just to be brief, what is fatal flaw : it is a flaw which puts in danger the very existence of the blade, meaning by this, a flaw which could lead to the breaking of the blade, or of a part of it. They concern the hamon.

Kitae ware, fukure, bent ... don't affect a blade viability but its artistic value

Jacques D. · February 28, 2009

Hi,

Kitae ware, fukure, ... don't affect a blade viability but its artistic value

That depends of their location.

Jean · March 1, 2009

Where Jacques?

Jacques D. · March 1, 2009

Hi,

Yakiba, mono-uchi, Kissaki.

Jean · March 1, 2009

Are you really sure Jacques about kitae ware and fukure being fatal

I wrote

They (fatal flaws) concern the hamon

.

I have never seen a fukure in the hamon, perhaps have you some example to show us

Concerning kitae ware and yaki ire - I am quoting Usagiya website :

Open layer (kitae-ware, in Japanese)
This kind of flaw is the easiest to be found.

It is not good for its visibility. But in most cases, it is not so serious as it looks like.

It is only a trouble for eyes.

A small flaw from fold welding work does not make the quality of the steel down.

No kitae-ware does not mean good steel.

We have to see the colour and brightness of the steel (in other words, the condition of the steel particles) to know its quality.

Sometimes, a thin open layer becomes a blister (fukure in Japanese). Unfortunately it looks so bad for eye. It is a pitiful flaw.

Tempering cracks (yaki-ware)

This kind of flaw is most terrible. Some of them are really bad.

It is a little difficult to be found. It is thinner than a hair line, but sharp and deep.

This crack appears in the hamon area by a mistake in tempering work.

It has some different types. (Do not confuse an open layer in the hamon area to a tempering crack.)

and here is a link to Dr Stein website :

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kizu.htm

It seems that :

Neither of them have seen a fukure in the hamon (they must have seen/held some blades in their Nihonto life.)

Kitae ware though unpleasant to the eyes seem not fatal as some yaki ire.

But it is a very good remark Jacques and I woul like Ted/Guido/Eric/Reinhard to tell us if they have ever seen a fukure in the hamon

Jacques D. · March 1, 2009

Hi,

On a yari but it could have been on a sword.

Grey Doffin · March 1, 2009

I have seen a fukure in the hamon. Don't have pictures, sorry. I was told at the time that it wasn't repairable because it was in the hamon.

Grey

Ted Tenold · March 1, 2009

Not really common, but fukure can occur in the yakiba. I have one here in the shop, but I wouldn't call it fatal eventhough it's in the yakiba because the surrounding steel has a great deal of mass around it to support it.

We have to be careful not to confuse what is fatal from an art value standpoint, versus a weapon standpoint. While the sword I have here has limited value as collectable art, it is still a fully functioning and dependable weapon. All fukure are not created equal. The magnitude and location of any flaw determine the level of concern. Saiha blades are technically fatal flaws (at least from the art collector's view), but so many are out there and can be regarded as still functioning weapons.

Jean · March 2, 2009

Thanks for the input Ted.

ShuShinKan · March 5, 2009

I could not imagine that there would come that many posts to my shy question.

I thank all of you very much for your replies, especially to Jean, because he seems to drive the discussion forward at any state! Great! I have learned a lot.

I am still unsure if I should buy and now has popped up this "beginner-wakizashi"... Life is tough!

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