2 old Tsubas!

[Calimero]

Hello!

I am new here and I come from Germany. Unfortunately, I have to run my English through a translation programme. I hope this is not disturbing here. Among other things, I got these two beautiful tsubas a few months ago, but unfortunately I am completely clueless in this area and need the help of the specialists here. My questions are, how old are the two Tsubas? How high can I estimate the market value?

 

Greetings    K. 

 

[Brian]

Congrats. Both appear to be nice tsuba.

[vajo]

Willkommen!

Nice pieces. Thanks for showing.

 

[Calimero]

Hello!

 

Thank you for your kind welcome to this forum. 

 

Greetings     Klaus

[kyushukairu]

The first piece, with the dragon, is signed ‘Sunagawa Masayoshi’ (砂川正吉), who was active during the late Edo period.

 

 

The second tsuba is signed ‘Kōshū  Hikone-jū  Sōheishi Nyūdō  Sōten  sei ’ (江刕彦根住藻柄子入道宗典製), which was used by a group of artist from mid to late Edo.

 

[Calimero]

Hello Kyushukairu!

 

Thank you for the very interesting informations you gave me. I would never find it on my own as I am not familiar with Japanese collectibles at all. However, I am very anxious to learn this informations. I still have some questions. Are the signatures on the tsubas from men who also made the sword blades? Are my two tsubas of good quality manufacture or rather not? 

 

Greetings     Calimero
 

[kyushukairu]

Your are very welcome, Calimero. Whilst some sword-smiths made tsuba, your tsuba were made by artisans whose primary occupation was to make sword fittings (tsuba, menuki, fuchigashira etc). In my opinion, both tsuba are of decent, mid-range quality. Personally, I prefer the dragon tsuba, but that is just because I find Hikone work to be a bit too fussy. 

[Calimero]

Hello Kyle!

 

Thanks for your assessment. It is with the manufacturers in Japan then also like with the blank gun manufacturers in Europe.  The largest of them made only individual parts and then bought add-on parts from other dealers and made a complete blank gun from them. But the qualities are clearly different in favor of the Japanese manufacturers, which I have now clearly recognized. 

 

Now I would like to ask you to explain other tsuba to me. For this I present these two parts here. The number "3" is probably made of bronze and has the dimensions 70x64 x3.6 mm. I especially like the little dragon or devil that looks over the top of the rim. Are some of the details real gilding? Number "4" is a simple, very unadorned fabrication in steel. The dimensions are 72,5x9,5x3,3 mm. What do the holes and the small humped bumps represent?

 

 

Greetings    Calimero  

[vajo]

Beautiful Shoki and Oni. Thanks for showing.

[Bugyotsuji]

Calimero, nice Tsuba!
The holes and bumps on your armourer’s Tsuba represent the 4 Shiten no byo and the 4 Hibiki-ana on Kabuto helmets. That looks like a Suji kabuto, with an ‘Agemaki no Kan’ ring that many Kabuto have at the back.

[Calimero]

Hello Piers!

 

Thank you for your explanation. However, the technical terms sound to me like "Bohemian villages", as we say here in Germany!  

 

Greetings    Calimero

[Bugyotsuji]

Just close your eyes, cross your fingers and believe, Calimero! 
 

PS it’s a Tsuba that I would like to own, showing elements of the traditional Samurai helmet. 

[kyushukairu]

The first tsuba, as Vajo notes, depicts Shoki (the demon queller) and oni (a demon). It is signed ‘Hamano Noriyuki’ (濱野矩随), and looks to be made from shakudo (a mix of 97% copper and 3% gold). The oni seems to be made from copper, whilst Shoki has gold, silver and shakudo overlay. 

As for the second tsuba, Piers have given you a much better explanation than I could have. 

 

[FlorianB]

Hello Calimero,

 

to gain more knowledge to this topic there are a lot of websites and books explaining technical terms, however on english.

 

I don’t know if Markus Sesko’s „Handbuch der Schwertzierate betreffenden Fachbegriffe“ is still available on german, if so, try to get and study it.

 

Best,
Florian

[Calimero]

Hello FlorianB!

 

Thanks for your hint! I myself don't want to get into this topic so much because I have another very time consuming hobby. I just want to know the most important details to be able to better assess the tsuba. 

 

Greetings    Calimero

[Calimero]

Hello Kyle!

 

So this means that my 3rd tsuba (copper) is from the middle EDO period and was made by master 'Hamano Noriyuki'. Is that about correct?

 

 

Greetings Calimero

 

 

[Calimero]

Hello!

 

Can anyone confirm my assertion?

 

Greetings    Calimero

 

[Bugyotsuji]

15 minutes ago, Calimero said:

Hello!

 

Can anyone confirm my assertion?

 

Greetings    Calimero

 

No, not quite like that. Perhaps we can say that, (from a photograph alone), it carries the signature of Noriyuki. Whether it was actually made by the master is another matter. This may be why people have hesitated to comment?

Kyle gave you some known signatures for comparison and to help you make a temporary judgement.

[Calimero]

Hello Piers D!

 

Thank you for your explanations. Then I can assume that the tsuba if not directly then at least from the environment of the master. Is that correct?

 

Greetings    Calimero

[Bazza]

Calimero, nice tsuba, I like them all.  If one pictures oneself at the bottom of a very, very deep well in Germany and one looks up to the sky and cannot see it, the study of sword fittings is as deep as this metaphor.  It is hardly possible to 'surface skim' as your perceptive questions suggest.  But do keep at it for it might become attractive enough for you to transfer allegiance from your other very time consuming interest!!  BTW, Germany has some very famous tsuba collectors in past history.

 

Best regards,

Barry Thomas.

(Melbourne, Australia)

 

 

[Calimero]

Hello Barry!

 

Thanks for your opinion. It's almost like you don't know where to start with this topic because it's so complex and you have to pay attention to unexpected things that an inexperienced person can never know. Without the help of you experienced collectors it can't work. As I said, by a lucky circumstance I got some tsuba that I wanted to have determined here in this forum one by one. But here there seems to be little interest to help because it is probably assumed that I only want to know the value of the tsuba to sell them then expensive. Of course I want to sell it, because it doesn't really fit into my field of interest, but of course I want to know something about it. Who helps me here anyway?

 

Greetings    Calimero

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

To answer your question above, unfortunately no again, we cannot really assume that it was made by a close disciple. Maybe it was, or maybe it was made more recently and someone has added this Mei to make it look perfect. There are many clever fakes around. How many experts in the world can take that shot?

 

Calimero, if you are lucky you will get a selection of opinions here, many of them helpful, pointing you in a certain direction, but none will be 100% reliable or guaranteed to be accurate. You cannot really base a sale on what someone has said here.

 

These things take time, something that many people do not think they have.

 

If dealers or collectors wish to be more certain, they send the tsuba off to a respected organization like the NBTHK and either get a refusal, or a signed certificate of authenticity. This is the normal route, definitely not a short-cut.

 

Some buyers are happy to make a judgement with their eyes, but many buyers will happily pay more if they feel confident that the article has been appraised by independent experts who have a responsibility and a vested interest in getting their facts right.

 

Even so, the system is not watertight, and our only real protection is constant learning.

[Surfson]

Calimero, these all appear to be fine tsuba and most of us would gladly have them in our collections.  You have done very well.  I presume that you have had some guidance, some luck or both in getting these great pieces!