Resin, Glue or Bitumen?

[Baka Gaijin]

Good Evening all,

 

Looking closely at a fairly wrecked late 19th C tsuka recently, I noted that the menuki and kashira had once been held on with a dark dark brown almost black paste like substance.

 

Close inspection under a 30x magnification shows it to contain fine fibres as if an organic material has been shredded and mixed with it.

 

Is this substance Resin, Glue or Bitumen?

 

Does it have a name?

 

What are its general properties with respect to cleaning it from Menuki or Kashira (i.e. does it have a low melt point, is it disolvable? etc).

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Malcolm

[Stephen]

pine tree sap?

[Baka Gaijin]

"Pine tree sap?"

 

Thanks Stephen,

 

A quick wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_tree) brings up sap of some varieties being used for turpentine and the production of pitch.

 

I hazard a quick off the hip guess that the melt temperature is fairly low and the free forming semiliquid would need a binding agent to keep it fixed until the drying process takes over, hence the chopped up organic matter (which could be bamboo fibres)??????

 

I guess a Tsukamakishi would know the answer to this.

 

EDIT @ 21.52 GMT 11.49 NMB:

 

Working on a hunch from Stephen, I just went on to the Namikawa Heibei site and found this:

 

http://www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/cgi-bin/i ... e=14&no=32

 

"Matsuyani - pine resin.....Tsukamakishi used it to make Kusune(Traditional Glue) mixed with Natane Oil, prevents Tsukaito from slipping."

 

Stephen. you Rock!!!

 

So now I modify the question, what degree of heat is required to melt old Kusune on fittings?

 

And how should it be applied? (Bain Marie type of controlled temperature indirect heat water bath or semi direct with a bounced flame source???)

 

Cheers

 

 

Malcolm

[John A Stuart]

here is a page devoted to matsuyani type glue. The temp. mentioned is

 

http://www.johnstuart.biz/new_page_22.htm

[Baka Gaijin]

Thank You Stephen, Thank You John, in equal measure.

oh and

 

Cheers Chaps!!

 

Malcolm

[Ted Tenold]

There was also the use of different adhesives besides Matsuyani. I've seen raw lacquer (urushi) mixed with sawdust or stone powder used as a backing material and adhesive. Japanese black pitch was also used and is quite strong. Shiroganeshi, Tsubako, and Swordsmiths use this to secure the piece while working. It is not the kind of pitch you can find in jewelry supplies though. It has a different properties and composition. Perhaps Ford can elaborate on it more.

 

You might want to determine what the material is so you can address it most compatibly.

[Baka Gaijin]

Thank you Ted,

 

A hot pin penetrates the material with an aromatic resinous smell coming off.

 

I've managed to remove a small chunk of it, and will try the boiling water method as described in John's note.

 

Cheers

 

Malcolm

[Ford Hallam]

A hot pin penetrates the material with an aromatic resinous smell coming off.

 

The substance is almost certainly Pine rosin, matsuyani. It's a by-product of the extraction of turpentine from pine resin .

 

Interestingly, the various bits of older material I've removed from Meiji period work smells much more of Pine than the new stuff. Obviously modern refining is more efficient

 

It is always to hand in traditional workshops so makes for a very handy "glue". It's easily mixed with filler material and once cool is very hard. It sticks like baby poo to a blanket, looks like it too. You may find all sort of various filler materials but for general workshop use a mix of the rosin with ground fire clay powder ( it tends to provide body and a degree of grittiness depending on the fineness ) a little vegetable oil and often a bit of charcoal powder to turn it black as opposed to the natural ochre colour ( ie; baby poo )

 

It can be safely removed with cellulose thinners or certain paint strippers ( Nitromors, the brown tin ). Neither of which will harm genuine patinae. Sometimes though, the mix is simply too old and perhaps oxidised ( not sure ) in those cases it doesn't respond to much at all. Bare in mind that it's an organic material and will tend to degrade as such...albeit generally very slowly.

 

You'll find an extensive discussion on the making and use of matsuyani by metalworkers here; on my forum

[Baka Gaijin]

Thank you Ford

 

Questions answered.......But more forming as a result I suspect :lol:

 

 

to all

 

Cheers

 

 

Malcolm

[Lorenzo]

Just in case it is not matsuyani, and in general terms, for other cases,

 

I've seen raw lacquer (urushi) mixed with sawdust or stone powder used as a backing material and adhesive.

 

I copy Ted.

A Sayashi working in Osafune told me a couple of years ago he uses ki-urushi (raw urushi) mixed with rice flour as a glue for kojiri and so.

 

He showed me a sample wood with another part glued, the glue looks was blackish like matsuyani. The gluing force is quite unbelievable.

[Baka Gaijin]

Thanks to everyone for the input.

 

Here's another question:

 

What is Senfuri? Which plant is it obtained from?

 

It is relating to prevention of insect attack on Tsuka, particularly in the glue that holds same down.

 

It is mentioned by Otake Risuke (Teaching Headmaster of Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu) in the excellent book introducing the Ryu, recently reworked and published by Koryu Books.

 

http://www.koryu.com/

 

The only mention I can get from t'internet is:

 

United Nations HS 2002

Subheading 1211.90 - - Other

(Stand-alone description: Plants & parts of plants, incl. seeds & fruits, OAKU primarily in perfumery/pharmacy/for insecticidal/fungicidal/sim. purps., n.e.s. in Ch.12, fresh/dried, WN cut/crushed/powdered) :?

 

 

Cheers

 

Malcolm

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

I think it is daikon, a radish variety. Excellent for the gallbladder :D

[Nobody]

What is Senfuri? Which plant is it obtained from?

Senburi (not Senfuri) is a Japanese name of Swertia japonica, which has been an old herb medicine in Japan.

Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swertia

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Moriyama san, senfuri is recorded here.

[Nobody]

Thanks Jacques.

Please also refer to the link below.

Senburi: http://www.planetbotanic.ca/fact_sheets ... enburi.htm

 

BTW, 千振 (Senburi) could also read Senfuri, but that is uncommon.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

thanks for that Moriyama san, i hope Japanese absinthe is not also poisonous than the french one (see the history of Van Gogh).

[Baka Gaijin]

Thank you both for the information

 

Cheers

 

 

Malcolm