Copper handle NCO shin gunto

[paul griff]

Hello,

         Picked this one up recently and maybe of interest to someone interested in the serial numbers....Sword has not been on the market and was on the wall of an old gents house then subject to house clearance and for the last twenty five years in a wardrobe...Interestingly the blade and saya numbers are only out by twenty so would hazard a guess they left the arsenal together....Lovely overall patina with wear around the saya where a hand has gripped and distortion to the hanging ring where the sword has been suspended..

Regards,

               Paul...

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice find Paul!  I agree with your thought that the non-matching numbers, being close, seems to indicate a factory replacement.  I know we discussed this, along with several examples, on another thread.

 

It's another example of the hundreds of thousands of gunto that we'd LOVE to study, but until someone, like you, posts them for all to see, they remain in the vast unknown.

 

@Stegel @Shamsy

[robinalexander]

Nice Paul, funny how swords such as this turn up from time to time....thanks for sharing.

Rob

[Lareon]

Ah I'm still waiting for my copper handled nco. I'll find one some day!

[vajo]

I like it Paul. Good find.

[paul griff]

Hello and thank you for the comments,

        Nice to share information and hopefully prevent someone being “tucked up “ especially with the increased value . Some interesting points about the first model include for instance the hanging rings are 3.5 mm compared to the later 4.5 mm which may be a good indication the sword never revisited the arsenal  or workshop for update or repair....Also the tsuka has a pronounced “ kick” to it reminiscent of ancient tachi , a feature that does not seem to appear on first models..

Regards,

               Paul..

[PNSSHOGUN]

The kick is interesting as it mimics the early Type 94 Tsuka shape.

[BANGBANGSAN]

  On 12/7/2021 at 11:52 AM, Lareon said:

Ah I'm still waiting for my copper handled nco. I'll find one some day!

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There is always some copper handle NCO sword on the market(2 on eBay right now), just need to find a fair price one. 

[Lareon]

  On 12/7/2021 at 6:22 PM, BANGBANGSAN said:

There is always some copper handle NCO sword on the market(2 on eBay right now), just need to find a fair price one. 

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Just had a look on us eBay and yeah I can see them. 

(Results for bladed products aren't shown on UK ebay)

 

Will keep an eye on it thanks.

[Shamsy]

The kick in the tsuba just looks as though the soft copper material has bent. That is one of the reasons for the move to aluminium. 

[paul griff]

Hello,

          Yes,you could be right there ? Tsuka does have slight distortion to the rear and the blade shows noticeable use on the first 8 ins or so.....

Regards,

               Paul...

[Stephen]

What was the ser# cut off number on copper NCOs

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 12/7/2021 at 8:36 PM, Shamsy said:

soft copper material has bent.

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I was going to joke that the owner must have had the crap scared out of him and his intense grip bent the tsuka!  Maybe I wasn't so far off!

 

  On 12/7/2021 at 10:54 PM, Stephen said:

ser# cut off number

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@Shamsy and @Stegel can say with some assurance, but it's in the mid-6,000s.

[Stegel]

Nice pick up Paul !

i noticed that the sarute barrel nut (which holds the handle to the blade) is actually a replacement.

Whether it was an Arsenal re-work, or field repair, or even post war replacement by someone wanting to see if there was a signature is almost impossible to tell.

The original barrel nuts were also made of copper.

Would you be able to post a photo of the drag please? (an overhead shot, not on the angle as your other photos)

It looks as if the brass plug is semi circular in appearance.

 

Stephen,  Dawsons book only lists #6561 as the highest 'observed' serial number, no photographic evidence unfortunately.

The source is unknown, however, he mentions {various sources but primarily Donald Barnes},   who also assisted Fuller & Gregory with their list.

His list also mentions the cross blade stamping of 501 (which is generally between the end of the bohi and the habiki) for this sword so i would be inclined to believe it is a real observation.  The earliest Aluminium handled sword i have observed is #6756, so to answer your question directly..... Bruce is on the mark, as the cut off is somewhere inbetween!

 

 

[Shamsy]

And by 7900 these transition models were done and the 'classical' Pattern 2 aluminium hilts with brass tsuba were in production. Might be a bit earlier too, but that's what I recall without double checking.

 

I actually got rid of my PC so it's a bit of a pain to find my old notes.

[paul griff]

Hello,

          Thank you for the information and comments....Some more photo’s attached and if anyone needs more just let me know..

                 Regards,

                                Paul..

 

        

 

         

[paul griff]

Hello,

         A couple more of the hilt and with a knot for my new “best friend”....

Regards,

              Paul..

[Bruce Pennington]

Paul,

Don't know if your tassel came that way, but with the brass tsuba 95s, they're designed to start at the tsuba, then loop through the sarute, and then hang down.  Here's a couple of pics, one from Ohmura, and one of mine:

 

[paul griff]

Hello Bruce,

                    Thank you,.....altering it now....Knot is a replacement  I have had for years but very good quality....nearly all the nco knots I come across are really fragile so I just use this one for effect.

Regards,

              Paul..

[Lareon]

  On 12/8/2021 at 1:42 PM, paul griff said:

Hello Bruce,

                    Thank you,.....altering it now....Knot is a replacement  I have had for years but very good quality....nearly all the nco knots I come across are really fragile so I just use this one for effect.

Regards,

              Paul..

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I have tassels for all my swords but the sad thing is they mostly live in bags with their respective sword written on them so they don't degrade further