Oh for goodness sake!

roger dundas · January 18, 2022

Please excuse my ignorance but just how easy is it to differentiate between an Edo period casting and a post Edo casting ?

The damn things are just a nuisance for such as me and why I try to keep clear of tsuba such as these.

Roger j

GRC · January 18, 2022

Roger, I wouldn't have the faintest idea... :dunno:

Maybe some have more of a "look of age"? Maybe the Shinsa groups are already aware of certain types that were produced in the Edo era?

But I certainly can't pick anything out just by looking at online images of cast tsuba. They just look "cast" to me.

And even then, we've seen some examples where you've gotta look pretty damn close to the details because they're really well done.

Tanto54 · January 18, 2022

Dear Roger, the Edo castings are usually sand castings and have surfaces like cast iron (unless significantly worked after casting). The kinko modern castings are often made using vulcanized rubber molds and wax injection to make the models and then spin or vacuum casted. Those techniques leave traces like spurs, mold lines, positive bubbles (like tiny dew drops on the surface - especially in crevices), porosity, etc. that are different from the old ways of casting. However, they can copy details down to the level of fingerprints, so they are often difficult to spot. Those modern molding techniques have only been around for 30-40 years, so the tsuba showing those telltale signs are modern fakes. Other signs are the painted on gold/silver highlights that show up on many of them, cast in place sekigane or plugs, and the identical "damage" on multiple copies.

GRC · January 18, 2022

Thanks for digging that gold coated Tengu one up Dale! I had lost track of it.

Also, just for comparison, the all-iron Tengu I posted sold for roughly 73000 yen! :sad:

George: "many of the Japanese experts are not well versed in these cast fakes either (it is a different skill set - more in the realm of gold-smithing than in tsuba kantei), so mistakes can be made (even by the best...)"

Very good point. Even experts are not infallible.

Brian · January 18, 2022

Does anyone remember @Ford Hallam's views on "Edo cast tsuba" ?
Hmmm

Spartancrest · January 18, 2022

I am already cringing. :flog:

roger dundas · January 18, 2022

Thank you George M- a good explanation.

Roger j

Spartancrest · February 6, 2022

Can anyone spot the difference between this - - and this-

apart from the scratches? Answer is 30,500 yen https://www.jauce.com/auction/q1025366646 + https://www.jauce.com/auction/k1036012236

Ok so what about this one

compared to this one

Answer is 48,600 yen [the rusty plain one is the more expensive!] https://www.jauce.com/auction/t1035229661 + https://www.jauce.com/auction/w1035433253

Talk about price gouging these two designs are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to modern fakes.

I have to give thanks to Roger Dundas who sent me an example of the gilded guard [same as that at the top] to examine.

Spartancrest · March 6, 2022

If you are going to sell a fake or a copy - make sure you don't try selling it in the same week as an original [well it may be?]

https://www.jauce.com/auction/g1040967621
https://www.jauce.com/auction/m1041114148
https://www.jauce.com/auction/t1040720200

Three copies, and ugly cranes at that! Two are reputed to be by Kano Natsuo [if true he was having a really really bad day!]

Spartancrest · March 8, 2022

Says it all really!

https://www.jauce.com/auction/h1041437745

IanB · March 8, 2022

During the Edo period the Japanese devised a lost-wax technique for producing superb quality castings. The description (in 'Silverwork and jewellery' by H. Wilson) related to castings of bronze, but could probably be used for iron as well. Essentially the method was to enclose the wax model with a thin layer of very fine clay into which paper fibres had been incorporated. This was then reinforced with a thicker layer of clay mixed with straw to support the paper-filled layer. When heated to melt out the wax the paper fibres and straw burnt away leaving a porous surface inside the mould that allowed gasses to escape but not the molten metal. There would inevitably be a sprue where the molten metal was poured in that needed to be cut off and the area cleaned up, but all the rest of the casting would have a smooth surface needing little or no finishing work.

Ian Bottomley