dirk marshall Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Norisuki Keyfret gold inlay tsuba Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 so should i just cut out the lines and hammer messing rod into them? (i dont have gold) KM Quote
sencho Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Posted November 28, 2006 Dirk, All awesome... you're killing me here!! Hope you have all of those for sale... he he he! Thanks very much for posting them and welcome to the board (though I suspect you have been lurking for a while!) Cheers Quote
Brian Posted November 29, 2006 Report Posted November 29, 2006 Dirk, Great fittings! I especially like that fuchi/kashira. I think those stylised clouds design might also make for an interesting theme...see them quite often. Not quite on topic..but since the keyfret design was linked to early basketweave patterns, I found this online today: (Not quite showing the manji, but you can see how it would evolve from the basketweave as shown earlier) Brian Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted November 29, 2006 Report Posted November 29, 2006 does anyone of you on here know wether the word MANJIRA etymologically comes from the Dutch word for basket: MANDJE ? since Biiru comes from the Dutch Bier, Bifuteki comes from the Dutch Biefstuk, Ranpu comes from the Dutch Lamp etcetera... KM PS anyone on here on the technique of inlaying tsuba? Quote
John A Stuart Posted November 29, 2006 Report Posted November 29, 2006 Hi KM, Not being an etymologist take this for what it is worth. Most European languages have roots in Aryan language. Swastika has Sanskrit roots. I think coincidence is the reason 'mandje' has that root 'man' which is the Japanese pronunciation of the kanji 'wan' in Chinese. I have heard it pronounced in another dialect 'hon'. Aryan had minor influence on far eastern roots. Hence my deduction. John http://www.crystalinks.com/swastika.html An informative site. Quote
sencho Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Posted November 29, 2006 That's a good article John, I noted these excerpts which mention the "sayagata" pattern of repeating manji, and also suggest that the 'reverse' swastika idea (which was my belief) is not actually so. "In Chinese, Korean, and Japanese art, the swastika is often found as part of a repeating pattern. One common pattern, called sayagata in Japanese, comprises left and right facing swastikas joined by lines. As the negative space between the lines has a distinctive shape, the sayagata pattern is sometimes called the "key fret" motif in English The swastika used in Buddhist art and scripture is known in Japanese as a manji, and represents Dharma, universal harmony, and the balance of opposites. When facing left, it is the omote (front) manji, representing love and mercy. Facing right, it represents strength and intelligence, and is called the ura (rear) manji. Balanced manji are often found at the beginning and end of Buddhist scriptures" Cheers Quote
sencho Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Posted November 29, 2006 By the way.... nice Tsuba Brian! Can you tell I am just trying to march on to 100!! Ha Ha Ha Cheers Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 does no one of you posess the information or technique on how to inlay tsuba?? i really am looking forward to inlay a forged (as in smithing) modern tsuba.... KM Quote
Brian Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 KM, All I could find at short notice is from this page: http://www.knives.com/tsuba.html Quote Inlaying of soft metals such as gold, silver, copper or brass alloys became prevalent in the 14th century. Initially inlaying utilised the baser metals and a degree of crudity in execution. A depression was cut in the surface by chisel. The sides of the depression are burred up while the sides of the inlay are beveled. The inlay is also domed slightly so it has a smaller footprint. Once the inlay is in situ the dome is flattened to spread it into the depression and the burr is pressed back down trapping it in place. By the end of the fourteenth century raised inlays were used so that they could be relief carved. Quote In other surface techniques a chisel was used to create a crosshatch pattern in the parent metal then a layer of gold foil was laid on the pattern and hammered into it with a wooden punch after which it is burnished. Another method involved using thin wire and small pieces of soft metal fused directly into the surface to create detail. Overlays were also created by fire gilding an amalgam of soft alloy and mercury into the surface. The heat drives off the mercury leaving the gold or other metal fused to the iron. Of course I don't recommend the use of mercury nowdays :? Brian Quote
Patrick Hastings Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 kusunokimasahige said: does no one of you posess the information or technique on how to inlay tsuba?? i really am looking forward to inlay a forged (as in smithing) modern tsuba.... KM There is a tutorial by Jim Kelso On "The Carving Path" Forum that uses an authentic technique for the setting of the raw inlay. Its much the way that I was trained to do it by Ford Hallam. It is enough to get you started. It is as good as your going to get for casual online information. Patrick Quote
Patrick Hastings Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 Quote Overlays were also created by fire gilding an amalgam of soft alloy and mercury into the surface. The heat drives off the mercury leaving the gold or other metal fused to the iron. Quote Of course I don't recommend the use of mercury nowdays :? Brian Hi Brian I don't recommend it either, but this process only works on soft metals. The mercury will not wet iron (diffuse into it). Generally a nonferrous alloy or copper is inlaid into the iron first then the Amalgam is used on that. The Amalgam will selectively diffuse into the Soft metal only. This leaves a crisp clean transition from the iron to the deposition of gold on the soft metal with no bleeding between the two. Patrick Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 Thank you very much!!!! i will go and study it! KM Quote
Bungo Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 http://www.esnips.com/web/kozuka?docsPage=3#files look at shunga1.jpg milt THE ronin Quote
sencho Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Posted December 1, 2006 Nice Milt.... Not inlaid work, but a sayagata pattern (keyfrett) all the same. on CG Art http://www.cgfinearts.com/select_produc ... alleryID=3 Cheers PS... come on... help me out, Milt... I know we can get this post to 5 pages!!! Quote
Bungo Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 sencho said: Nice Milt.... Not inlaid work, but a sayagata pattern (keyfrett) all the same. on CG Art http://www.cgfinearts.com/select_produc ... alleryID=3 Cheers PS... come on... help me out, Milt... I know we can get this post to 5 pages!!! Kapitan, what do you mean by not inlaid work ? it's not painted on................ have you noticed the little critter at the bottom of the kimono rack ? it's the woman ( being seduced )'s dog. I have a painting showing a gaisha holding just such a dog.......... ( the original set are three paintings, the gaisha painting is the center, the other two are VERY graphic despiction of the male and female " member " ........no, my boss did not allow me to buy the whole set ) milt THE ronin Quote
Bungo Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 make it to 5th page yet ? picture of gaisha holding the dog............. http://www.esnips.com/web/Japanesepaintings milt THE ronin Quote
sencho Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Posted December 1, 2006 Quote have you noticed the little critter at the bottom of the kimono rack ? it's the woman ( being seduced )'s dog. Sorry Milt... not with you there.... The Fuchi and Kashira on CG Art look like copper (?) They look carved rather than inlaid. We know who wears the swords in your house then!! heh heh heh!! Cheers Quote
Bungo Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 " Sorry Milt... not with you there.... The Fuchi and Kashira on CG Art look like copper (?) They look carved rather than inlaid. " Now I see, you mean Colin's f/k and NOT my kozuka......... " We know who wears the swords in your house then!! heh heh heh!! " yeah....only way to keep the peace, make love not war.......... we made it to 5th page yet ? milt THE ronin Quote
sencho Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Posted December 1, 2006 Must be close to page 5.... As my father once said to me "Anything for an easy life"... He still calls my Mum "She who must be obeyed!" or "The Memsahib" (sp?) Where is this little critter you are talking about?? The Kozuka is very nice however.. Cheers Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 well if this helps............ :lol: KM Quote
Bungo Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 Where is this little critter you are talking about?? at the bottom , near the edge of the kimono milt the ronin Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted December 1, 2006 Report Posted December 1, 2006 are we on five yet? :lol: KM ps is esemono a proper Japanese insult? read it in a silly book called "Sensei" Quote
Gaijin Posted December 2, 2006 Report Posted December 2, 2006 Love that beautiful owari kinko, it's magnificent. I have one patterned tsuba too, here is the picture Quote
Brian Posted December 2, 2006 Report Posted December 2, 2006 Vitali, That's the one you have for sale on your website at $180? http://www.bushiart.com/shop/default.as ... Name=Tsuba Some nice items there at what looks like fair prices to me..including that sukashi basketweave tsuba I posted earlier at $350. Keep the fretwork items comming all..loving most of these Brian Quote
sencho Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Posted December 2, 2006 Hi Vitali, That is a good example that is the first I have seen. It looks to me like a completely RAIMON pattern rather than the SAYAGATA, as I see no Manji present, Very nice. Cheers Quote
sencho Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Posted December 2, 2006 Thanks for including the link to Vitali's site Brian. I haven't it before... PS... hard luck at Twickernham 2 weeks ago!! Cheers Quote
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