WW2 Japanese SWORD

[Swords]

Hi I have this sword blade probably needs a polish dose anyone know what the w on the tang stands for and any info about this smith and date 

[Bruce Pennington]

You can read all about the "Mysterious 'w' stamp" HERE.  The short version is it's most likely an intermediate/half-way inspection stamp.  An army reg found by @Kiipu says as much.

 

The smith is Takehisa, who is one of 8 recorded smiths with the stamp, not counting all the Mantetsu blades with it.  Your date is Autumn 1943.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Also, Steve, you HAVE to get me a clear shot of that number at the end of the nakago!!!  Is that "811"?  Can you contact the owner for a better photo?  If not, can you give me a link?  I hope I don't sound desperate .......  I HAVE TO HAVE THAT NUMBER!!!!  Ok, calming down.....   Ha!  But I would appreciate it.

[Swords]

  On 11/16/2021 at 5:41 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Also, Steve, you HAVE to get me a clear shot of that number at the end of the nakago!!!  Is that "811"?  Can you contact the owner for a better photo?  If not, can you give me a link?  I hope I don't sound desperate .......  I HAVE TO HAVE THAT NUMBER!!!!  Ok, calming down.....   Ha!  But I would appreciate it.

Expand  

No numbers is this sword worthy with the w and smith 

[ChrisW]

Depends if it is gendaito or not. But from what I remember of him, I believe he made average grade showato. So does it make financial sense? Likely not. If it is sentimental, then it is still a question for a proper togishi (not sure if they handle showato or not though), they'd also be the one to ask if they believe it is gendaito or showato.

[Ooitame]

@Bruce Pennington  in the first picture the number is 448.

[Swords]

It’s gendaito is it worthy isn’t it rare with the w I posted pictures look the same as yours 

[ChrisW]

He's a known showato smith. It isn't known if he made gendaito or not. The W-stamp is not exclusively linked to just Mantetsu blades; there is a small list of smiths who have this W stamp. The prevailing theory that Bruce has produced is that it is a midway inspection mark of some kind. Here is Bruce's thread on the W-stamp:

To see if it is gendaito or not, you'll have to show that there are no characteristic dark peaks that are a result of the oil-quenching process while finding evidence of hada. These are questions best left for a togishi or someone with a lot of experience in these wartime blades to answer. However, the odds are not in favor of it being gendaito simply by the fact that he is a known showato smith and no known gendaito are documented to his name. Incidentally it seems all known blades to his name are marked 1943 and none were shown to be gendaito. If you are thinking of purchasing this blade and the decision hinges on gendaito or not, my gut says it is likely not. But again, a decision that is best left to a togishi or someone specialized in these wartime blades.

You could perhaps get more pictures of the nagasa and see if you can show details of the hamon? Capturing some evidence of hada would also help with showing it is more likely to be gendaito. Try under the habaki where there may be a higher chance of less surface corrosion/buildup.

[Swords]

The seller claims Gentai I paid 975 hope it’s ok just scratches but will look it over 

[ChrisW]

Even if not gendaito, if it appears in okay shape, then you didn't get ripped off. That is a fairly average price for a showato.

[Bruno]

Smith seems to be TAKEHISA, average showa-to/gendai-to maker.

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/oshigata/takehisa.jpg

 

The W stamp is often found on his blades.

[Swords]

I hear different opinions Gentai or not?

[ChrisW]

Without more photos showing clear activity in the steel (hada and hamon) and a lack of dark peaks in the hamon, it cannot be called a gendaito. You would be best to error on the side of caution and believe that this is a showato. If you want a more ironclad judgement, you could always speak to a togishi or visit a swordshow.

If you want more opinions from the folk here, you need more photos showing the steel up close.

[Swords]

Thanks everyone As I see these pictures I don’t see an active hamon for  a Gentai 

Also dark areas !

this and others opinions 

point to a Showa Oil quench blade

 

steve

[ChrisW]

Happy to be of assistance! As far as showato go, this isn't a bad one and is at a pretty average market price-point.

[Swords]

The problem is I bought it based on it said to be Gentai

[ChrisW]

If you're not happy with the price, you could always seek a refund base on eBay's policy of an item being sold as falsely described. I think its still not a bad buy for the money you paid. If you had paid $1300+ then I would be worried.

[Swords]

Your right I think I will

I just bought another sword from him before and thought it was a different one he had a star stamped but sold I thought it was that sword but was a Showa stamped it was confusing at the time 

but it isn’t described correctly I think ? Probably lost a seller but I did buy a nice takayama a while back 

I think I’m done buying for a while 

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/16/2021 at 3:54 PM, Ooitame said:

@Bruce Pennington  in the first picture the number is 448.

Expand  

Thanks Eric, you're right.  @Kiipu - notice the orientation!!! Ha!  First one I've seen stamped vertically with blade tip down!

 

[Brian]

The "Gendaito" thing is one of the most abused words on eBay. Every second seller claims Gendaito, knowing that it isn't officially defined and hard to prove. You would need to have something fully polished to even argue the point. Seen plenty of arsenal marked swords and the seller says Gendaito. How are you supposed to prove him legally wrong?
I'd say never rely on that word.

[ChrisW]

  On 11/17/2021 at 6:15 AM, Brian said:

The "Gendaito" thing is one of the most abused words on eBay. Every second seller claims Gendaito, knowing that it isn't officially defined and hard to prove. You would need to have something fully polished to even argue the point. Seen plenty of arsenal marked swords and the seller says Gendaito. How are you supposed to prove him legally wrong?
I'd say never rely on that word.

Expand  

This is all very true.

[Stephen]

Steve,  i winch each time you say 

  On 11/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, Swords said:

The problem is I bought it based on it said to be Gentai

Expand  

Please, its Gendaito! Lol

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

The first picture is a completely different sword, it's a Zohei-To.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/17/2021 at 12:12 PM, PNSSHOGUN said:

The first picture

Expand  

Good catch John!  2 different nakago!

[ChrisW]

  On 11/17/2021 at 12:12 PM, PNSSHOGUN said:

The first picture is a completely different sword, it's a Zohei-To.

Expand  

Something is rotten here! Good catch!

[Swords]

You guys are good I did sent the seller info I got from you all and canceled my order 

Too bad I bought a nice mint takayama from him a while back He sells swords on EBay Now I’m Leary buying from him
I should look elsewhere but I don’t go to shows and only know few sword guys that are dealers who just want to sell 

Im findng out if you don’t know a lot it’s easy to get burned!! I do appreciate everyone’s help 

 

thanks Steve 

[ChrisW]

Another place you can buy from would be here. Because people here tend to be very knowledgeable, listings tend to be self-policing. You can often get a real steal of a deal here too.

[Swords]

Where’s the place to look or is it word of mouth 

[ChrisW]

There's a sales section on this site, you have to just check in here daily and see what pops up. You can also make a post of what you'd like to buy and give a price you're willing to pay and see what folk here might have to suit your wants.

There is also a collection of links at the top under "nihonto links"  -> "Info" -> "commercial listings #".

[PNSSHOGUN]

There is nothing wrong with that seller, many of us have purchased from him without any issues. He is not an expert but generally lists things quite fairly, both in price and description. There is a level of due diligence to be had from the buyer when purchaser from ANYONE, whether it be ebay sellers, collectors or even dealers.