Nerikawa tachi tsuba

[Janrudolph]

Good day to all! I have a leather tsuba with an accessory plate I believe to be an o-seppa. I also believe the cross-shaped pattern to be gold. Looking closely at the edge of the tsuba, I am not able to discern any layers of leather; it seems to one-piece. Please see the two pics below. I have found some rather confusing facts about these nerikawa tsuba, being really ancient (Heian period 794-1185) but also being made right up to the late Edo/Meiji periods. Simply put, the katana took over from the tachi, not so? So tachi style tsuba were not required to be made in later times? I realise the truth is not as simple, so please don't be too hard on me for being overly concise. How must I regard this latest find? Johan 

[Janrudolph]

[Janrudolph]

[Spartancrest]

https://www.jauce.com/auction/v1012097670

Johan you are correct the Tachi was still worn at the imperial court right up till the Meiji period as 'formal' attire. Do you only have the one O-seppa? normally one either side of the tsuba. With most other tsuba you would display in the position of the first image you posted but being Tachi they were worn 'upside down' as in the last image. From what little I know the leather used was either horse hide or buffalo and most often in up to six layers glued together with the grain being alternately placed. Many had a thin metal plate within the layers for strength and usually had a fukurin securing the outside edges. Unfortunately leather does not last very well over time and very few intact pieces remain.  Example of delaminating leather tsuba

http://i.imgur.com/BVqw9DD.jpg

I see partial remains of a fukurin on your piece and some gilding to the leather still remains on one face, but time is not kind to the leather.

There is another discussion on Nerikawa tsuba here: 

 

[Brian]

Would like to ask if any parts of this are magnetic at all? Seppa or any part of the tsuba or no magnetic attraction at all anywhere?

[Janrudolph]

Dale & Brian, thank you. Let me reply to Brian first: my strongest magnet shows no attraction whatsoever to any part of the tsuba or o-seppa. The way you asked the question convinces me you felt you can arrive at a clear conclusion depending on my answer. I'm eager to hear what that is, as this tsuba has whetted my appetite for clues as to its dim past!

Dale, I've looked at the jpg link and the April 7, 2010 link that you supplied, for which I am grateful. The auction link set me on a search route that led me to information about a tsuba that currently resides in the Walters Art Museum, Baltimore. It looks surprisingly like "my" tsuba, however, I can't make out whether that tsuba is nerikawa - I think not. I also don't know if there are two o-seppa, or if the tsuba is a one-piece unit with decorations on it that simulates o-seppa. (I'll post that picture below.)

But that is the ONLY picture I could find that looks at all like "my" tsuba. There are those that believe the gold cross design depicts a Christian motif, and others believe the cross is a representation of the ken motif repeated four times as in the four directions and bears at each terminal an inome (boar's eye) symbol which indicates vigilance and unwavering commitment. So if that is the explanation of the design of the Art Museum tsuba in the pic below, then it must also explain "my" tsuba.

My further answers to Dale's questions are: (i) I cannot see any layers in the leather of my tsuba. Looking at its condition, one would think it would have started to delaminate, and it did not. (ii) There is definitely no fukurin. (iii) There's no gilding on the leather; it's only the lacquer reflecting light. (iv) I have only one o-seppa.

I gather that nerikawa tsuba go back a long way, some even going back to the late Heian period. These early examples are usually marugata in shape and quite plain, being mostly supported on the sword by the o-seppa. This is not me being clever, it is what I'm reading. I'm not making any claims as to the nature or age of "my" tsuba.

The picture below is the one in the Walters Art Museum. Johan

     

 

[Janrudolph]

[rkg]

Johan,

Hoo boy, that's a lot of material to cover...

 

you might start by getting a copy of Markus Sesko's Koshirae Taikan - he does a pretty good job of covering the various styles of koshirae and when they were used.  I had gotten an electronic copy a while ago but hadn't really looked at it much until I was researching a piece I -thought- was an old naginata tsuba but -actually- was a Kamakura period tachi tsuba, but I digress:

 

https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/markus-sesko/koshirae-taikan/ebook/product-1gg5dkp6.html?page=1&pageSize=4

 

I love his e-books because they are searchable (including the kanji), and you can zoom in on the images and see a lot of details, but I digress again.

 

Tachi koshirae kind of quit being used in battle regularly during the Muromachi period*, but tachi koshirae were made up until the Meiji period as "dress" pieces (for court in some occasions, the imperial family usually wore an archaic version, etc etc).  In addition, there was a b*stardized version of the tachi koshirae called Handachi that was similar but was meant to be worn blade up that you see right up to the end of the Edo period - they typically had the large seppa, etc.  If I had to guess, that's what I'd say your piece is (despite its decayed condition, it doesn't look -that- old to me, doesn't have a lot of layers, they built up the mimi with lacquer, it has kozuka/kogai hitsu that kind of look ubu, etc - though ymmv on that - there's one that is in the elephant book that is dated fairly early (momoyama?  can't remember now) that might have had lacquer work done to build up the surface (just can't tell until you see it in hand, right?)). 

 

Forensically you can look for the brown undertone in the black lacquer, what the crazing looks like, etc - or you can get it carbon dated (kind of cool that these actually -can- be carbon dated, but...).  Sometimes they have an iron layer in the middle, sometimes not. - seems like most of the really old survivors had the iron plate in the middle, had a fukurin that held it together, or were small.

 

Intact ones made before the early Edo period are really rare, as they pretty much all delaminate and usually are lost at that point (and it seems to be a fairly destructive process - I've seen a nambokucho period tsuka/seppa set where the seppa are cupped outward from the nakago ana/tsuba surface, apparently by the action of the nerikawa tsuba as it fell apart over time - they must swell at the same time).

 

Good Luck,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

*outside of the Ainu, etc anyway

[Janrudolph]

Richard, thank you for coming in! I have come to be very much enlightened by all your contributions so far to my knowledge of this tsuba. At this stage, taking into account ALL that you have mentioned so far, it seems the opportune moment to tell you something of my Nobuyoshi katana's connection with this tsuba.

1) I got the blade plus koshirae from a SA guy.

2) This guy had the blade and koshirae renovated by various "service-providers".

3) The blade is signed Nobuyoshi and dated 1680.

4) The koshirae was judged by forum members to have been made "yesterday".

5) I thought the koshirae was untypical and so I did not like it.

6) Upon my request for information, the previous owner said the sword had the leather tsuba pictured above in place. He did not like that worn tsuba and fitted a replacement katana tsuba instead.

7) If you look at the fittings on the koshirae (see picture below), which he said were as he got it, you will agree it shouts "handachi"!

Replace the silver tsuba with the nerikawa tsuba, and it completes the handachi image!

 

This makes me wonder if I should not remove the silver tsuba, make a mock-up of the missing o-seppa as best I can, and fit the leather tsuba plus the two o-seppa to restore the original intention, namely that the koshirae was meant to be handachi. What say you all to this notion? Johan 

[Janrudolph]

[christianmalterre]

Nerikawa tsuba are an extremely interesting subject if you are interested in very old, and even ancient pre Edo timing tsuba.

"New model " Nerikawa tsuba occurred mainly in the late 19th century, due to lack of suitable material.
In the late Edo period they were actually out of focus, but occasionally appeared in schools as well.

( they will be papered! )

 

The piece in focus is neither Edo period, nor an early piece from the beginning of the last century.

I think here rather of a modern "neuzeitlich gearbeitetets" part. about the 70s to 80 years taste of history.

 

Further impressions are welcome - and it´s quite  same with these attelages on this Ensemble of Mountings...

 

Certainly! not authentic Antique!

 

do keep on - gamblers!

 

me

 

[Janrudolph]

Christianmalterre, whereas I am grateful that you have come in, I am not too convinced by what you have eloquently offered. I prefer somebody to dispute an opinion I have offered with some convincing alternative statements containing reason.

1) I did offer clear pictures. Looking at the leather tsuba I have in hand, and noting the expertise that must have gone into the laborious building up of black lacquer to give the tsuba a smooth surface and especially a raised edge, I get the opinion it could not have been palookas who crafted this object, nor do I think it was made by machines. These are Japanese craftsmen of old, is that not true?

2) You mention 70's to 80's. I take it you mean the dates to be from the end of the "last century". The last century was the 20th century, running through the 1900's. The time span suggested (1970 - 1980) means you think the tsuba is about 40-50 years old. I fail to see how a short span of time like that can wreak such devastation on a beautifully crafted tsuba as this must have been when new. (That's even if I acknowledge that time is cruel to leather.) 

3) Please do me the kindness of describing to me, or showing a picture, of a "very old" nerikawa tsuba, or an "ancient pre-Edo" nerikawa, or even any of the "new model" nerikawa, and especially one of the "neuzeitlich gearbeitetets" tsuba. That would aid me tremendously in placing "my" tsuba in a time frame.

4) I'm very eager to learn from you, Christianmalterre, but your statements are not yet as helpful as I would like it, or I have been too slow to take in what you said. Please come back! Regards. Johan

[Bazza]

Gentlemen,

 

Firstly, congratulations Johan on your Nobuyoshi katana, dated too.  The koshirae looks very nice indeed.  I am fascinated by the nerikawa tsuba discussion, but as I too have a Nobuyoshi katana in handachi koshirae I would like to see some good pictures and details of the blade, probably a separate thread would be the go??  You show me yours and I'll show you mine!!!

 

Secondly, I can't see the whole koshirae clearly enough to give a considered answer to your question about which tsuba to use.  In any event, I'm sure there are far better people than I to comment on this.

 

Best regards,

BaZZa.

aka Barry Thomas

Melbourne, Australia.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

As usual a lot of discussion about a pretty unworthy object . It looks to me like it was originally a silvered copper or brass tsuba ( or maybe even silver ) like that in the Walters Museum . Someone has glued a leather cover over the body of the tsuba , for some unknown reason , and then popped the shakudo (?) and gilt (?) plate back on the top . Seems to be Meiji or later to me .

Ian Brooks

[Janrudolph]

Barry and Ian have thankfully climbed onto the wagon and I need to reply to both. However, I find myself faced with a problem. First of all, what Barry recommends cannot be done, not because I'm lazy or uncaring, but because everything concerning this blade and its koshirae has already been thrashed out in other threads. Barry has himself been a contributor to the thread where the blade was shown and discussed and I have already jotted down his take on the blade. The signature and dating mei was also shown and discussed in detail in a second thread. And the koshirae was similarly done in a third thread. So I have amassed a load of ideas, opinions, thoughts and misgivings throughout the run of these three threads. This has enabled me to combine the sum total of the contributions and compile a final wrap-up concerning the Nobuyoshi katana and its trappings. During the run of the threads I have responded to requests for further pics, and, after supplying same, no responses were forthcoming. So there does remain questions that I had, which sadly has to date not been replied to. I have also found that whereas forum members have been kind, considerate and helpful in the majority of cases, there have been instances where they do not scan back to earlier posts where facts and descriptions have been laid on the table, and consequently misjudge a situation. This is not me just complaining! I am just as guilty of human failings as we all are, so it's no train smash. I'm just trying to explain to Barry why I cannot react to his request, which means, if I should comply, that the whole caboodle repeats itself.

And, Barry, the koshirae might look nice to you, but the forum members have poo-pooed it, saying that its "not Japanese" and "made yesterday". In fact, I have never to date seen such handachi fittings on any other sword. The handachi fittings I do see, all look like the fittings on my shin-gunto type 98 officer's katana.    

[Janrudolph]

Now on to Ian's reply. Further up in this thread I have shown pictures and I have described the "unworthy object" in some detail. It consists of a single-layered piece of hard, sturdy leather. I have examined the cut-through openings with a 10 X glass and found no lamination, also no delamination, also no sign of a layer of metal glued between layers of leather. I have already reacted to Brian's request that I examine the tsuba and o-seppa with a strong magnet, and I have found no attraction whatsoever. And finally, the o-seppa has just yesterday been examined by XRF analysis by a nuclear physicist contact of mine, who reports that the plate shows a profusion of copper with a smattering of gold and iron. In my book, that's shakudo. The cross is gold, with a smattering of copper. So Ian, does that perhaps sway your finding on the tsuba? I still can't place this object in the timeline of Japanese history, but it does not seem to be Meiji or later. If it should be a "modern rework", like Christianmalterre suggests, how come the short passage of time has wreaked such devastation to the condition of the leather and surrounding lacquer? Johan

[Bazza]

Well, Johan, guilty as charged!!  I appreciate your explanations about your past Nobuyoshi threads and will dig further, but I must say I have a devil of a job keeping up with anything.  Just ask Ian, a friend and fellow collector locally.  Ian??   Oh, and don't talk to my wife!!  I seem to recall (faintly) that my photos of my Nobuyoshi and koshirae were probably woefully inadequate.  I'll try harder to keep up and will go and look for your earlier threads and update myself .

 

BaZZa

aka Barry Thomas.

[Janrudolph]

Barry, looking at the last post you wrote made me realise I'm speaking to a big, big man. If I could, I'd call up Scotty to transport me magically to your place "down under" so I can have a beer with you and have the privilege of shaking your hand!

In the meantime I have been busy looking for more nerikawa tsuba looking like mine, and I came upon these two (please see below). The first one looks like mine because of the utterly poor condition of the lacquer, however, mine also has the four boar's eye cutouts in addition; and the second because of the cross design which looks much the same as the silver (?) Art Museum tsuba  and my tsuba's single o-seppa. The first one was posted in 2014 by a member called Jason, and the second by Boris Markhason, posted by Marius in that same year.

The second one is said to date to the Momoyama to early Edo period (c. 1590-1650). It consists of four layers of leather which have been carved and assembled to mimic a classic aoi tachi tsuba with o-seppa.

What about the first one's date? Well, Boris has said that the vast majority of preserved nerikawa tsuba date to the late Edo period. Edo is 1603 - 1867, so late Edo runs up to 1867. Now, I think what is plausible for the first one is plausible for mine too, so I think my nerikawa tsuba was crafted not later than 1800-1867. That makes it older than 153 years, but probably not older than 220 years. This time span could account for the deterioration in condition it suffered. I'd want to go for 220 years or older even, because I really do think that the level of deterioration I see is profound and genuine. Think I'm imagining things, you all? Well, shoot me down in flames with sound reasoning.  

Johan

[Janrudolph]

[Spartancrest]

A nerikawa is listed here for auction - https://www.jauce.com/auction/m397466150

You might note the de-laminating layers and it looks to have been lacquered on the edges, so may not have had a fukurin. I don't know why one of the hitsu is only partly cut through?