gumanthon Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Hello All, I have just bought these two swords. I beleive one to be around the 1550 period I have attempted to read the mei Tsuguhiro probably dates to the Koto era. The second sword I beleive to be around the 1900's and have tried to read the mei Kanemune Saku. Both of them have a good wavy hammond but can only be seen easily in the polished one. I am sure these are hand forged unless someone can tell me different. If anyone can give me any info on either of them I will be very grateful thank you. Regards John. Overall length 34 7/8" 35 1/2" Quote
Brian Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 John, Haven't loaded the first 3 pics yet, but at first glace, when you see this style of "chippy" looking mei, you should be thinking Showato, WW2. Not saying it is yet..but that is what I first notice on WW2 mei, especially mass produced blades. Brian Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Same idea here, especially when looking at hamon and tang colour in the other pics.. Showato. KM Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I turned one vertical to save a few necks. Hard to read. John Quote
paulb Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I am sure some one with better eyes and Kanj ability than me will correct this but at first sight it looks like a very worn Omi Daijo Tadahiro. Cant see enough to validate the authenticity or otherwise. Agree the second one looks to be a showa-to regards Paul Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I think you are close Paul, but, I think Omi Kami Tadahiro. John Quote
paulb Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Yes I think you are right John, now you have said it I can see the kami well done you cheers Paul Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Paul said "well done you", I say 'us'. John Quote
Mark Green Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Is there no 'Stamp' on the modern sword? And I would say you guys are right on with the Tadahiro. We need some much better pics of that one. Tadahiro is a big name in Hizen. 1600's shinto Quote
Jacques Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Hi, Tadahiro is a big name in Hizen. 1600's shinto Cannot be this one. Quote
reinhard Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 The mei reads: Omi no Kami TSUGUHIRO (Echizen province, late 17th century, if genuine), but it looks real bad. reinhard Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Reinhard, Don't the Echizen Tsuguhiro use these kanji? 繼廣 The Soshu smiths used 次廣. Still I'm favouring, 忠廣. Not contesting, but, what do you think? John Quote
reinhard Posted February 14, 2009 Report Posted February 14, 2009 Hi John, There seems to be a confusion about printed and written kanji. I'm sure the TSUGUHIRO meant here is the following one. On the left is an example given in Nihon Toko Jiten by Fujishiro, on the right another one given by Kanzan: reinhard Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 14, 2009 Report Posted February 14, 2009 I see it now. Makes a whole lot of sense. Tricky SOB's, eh? Thanks, Reinhard I shall remember that now. John Quote
gumanthon Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Posted February 14, 2009 Hi Everyone, Thank you very much for all your very interesting debate regarding the swords. The older sword sounds as if I may be lucky and I have hit on a good one maybe. The showato sword is probably still a good buy for me I will post some more pictures I do not know if the pictures will be of much help because the blade is not polished. Thanks all again for your help. Regards John. Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 14, 2009 Report Posted February 14, 2009 I hope I have made these a little more clear. John Quote
gumanthon Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Posted February 14, 2009 Hi all, Thank you for making the pictures clearer John . I know it is very difficult witthout a full polish and with the staining but do the pictures show any possiblity of it being a TSUGUHIRO. or any other oppinions now you have the other pictures. Kind Regards John Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 I have no oshigata of this smith. To verify characteristics of this smith you will have to see if they are in your sword. The Echizen school which Tsuguhiro belonged followed the Mino tradition and thus look for masame in the shinogiji and mokume in the hira. Perhaps there is muneyaki and the hamon vary, but, generally are in nioi-deki. The nakago is kengyo on your sword, that fits, can't make out the yasurime. Can you define the hamon gunome-midare? John Quote
reinhard Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 ...but do the pictures show any possiblity of it being a TSUGUHIRO?John Nobody will be capable of giving you an answer on the basis of amateur-pics (no offence). Most reliable source of information is the mei once more. In case you want to investigate any further by yourself, here's a hint what to look for in this particular example: sharp respectively rounded angles in the writing of the name TSUGUHIRO. This is not an expertise, however. Just a notion. TSUGUHIRO was well known and oshigata can be found in ShinTo Hen by Fujishiro, in ShinTo oshigata by Sato Kanzan, in ShinTo Taikan by Iimura and in other books. Maybe you can get one or more of these. I recommend them all. For background information: TSUGUHIRO belonged to the group of sandai (third-generation) YASUTSUGU of Echizen Shimosaka group. This is where you should look for parallels in workmanship. reinhard Quote
loiner1965 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 sorry to jump in here but this is my friends sword and i have been trying to buy it from him for years but its a no go.....its Omi Daijo Tadahiro Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 Omi Daijo Fujiwara Tadahiro. It would be nice to see it photographed so you can see something of the blade. Reinhard, I leaved through too quick and missed those oshigata, seeing only the other Tsuguhiro's. John Quote
loiner1965 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 Omi Daijo Fujiwara Tadahiro. It would be nice to see it photographed so you can see something of the blade. Reinhard, I leaved through too quick and missed those oshigata, seeing only the other Tsuguhiro's. John i will ask him john as he keeps it locked away after someone told him who it was made by years ago..... Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 Great. Maybe he has some already. it is good it did not sink into the moors. :lol: John Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 Must say that is one of the worst ways to photograph ant iron object! the rust moist grass causes on iron swords is legendary amongst the re-enactment community so....... bad bad boy!!!! never do it again! KM Quote
pcfarrar Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 Looks like a good mei on the Tadahiro, almost identical to one I have. Quote
reinhard Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 This is a very famous blade by TADAHIRO. Its nickname is: "shibaka(ri)ki-maru". reinhard Quote
Brian Posted February 16, 2009 Report Posted February 16, 2009 Reinhard, Are you saying you know this particular sword? Is it published, or do you just recognise it from the pics? If so..I certainly hope the owner knows what he has, and is taking good care of it. Would deserve a full polish and papers if it is a known blade. Brian Quote
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