My first REAL Nihonto!!! Opinions & Polish Recommendations??

[Ffffrosty]

Hi All,

 

Got this wakizashi today, tell me what you think.

 

Any guestimations on age (the seller guesses Edo, which is pretty broad), and any recommendations on a polisher?

 

By the way, taking pics of the hamon is a MAJOR pain; it is like trying to photograph a ghost.

 

Thanks!

Mark

[Ffffrosty]

Kissaki... koshirae pics on the way!!!

 

Blade edge is 17 inches long.

[Ffffrosty]

Here are pics of the Koshirae... the blue and same appear much brighter than actual, the same is more of a yellowed ivory color and the wrap is more of a night blue.

[Ffffrosty]

Oh, as far as polisher recommendations, I'm in Florida, USA,

[John A Stuart]

In the links are polishers available. If you want recommendations it might be better to ask for PM's. It is possible to offend people in a public forum. John

[Ffffrosty]

Hi John,

 

That's a good idea, thanks!

 

Any opinions on the blade overall?

 

Thanks,

Mark

[John A Stuart]

A nice tight rig. The fittings are attractive on this wak. I can't tell much about the blade. I can understand why you want a polish. Did someone remove rust with steel wool? To which smithor school was this attributed when you bought it? John

[Ffffrosty]

I really like the look as well, it is MUCH nicer in person than on the pics!

 

Not sure on the steel wool, but there's no rust... I REALLY hope they didn't use steel wool, but ????

 

The seller didn't quote a school or smith, only that they thought it was an "edo" blade, well that narrows it down to a few hundred years of possibility.

 

Hence my request for help, pathetic newbie that I am

[Jean]

Mark,

 

Yo're gonna be disappointed, it looks like a Shinto nakago with some togari which could lead to some Mino influences (as more than 80% of Shinto blades). If anybody else can add any comment he is welcome. That's all one can say (I am talking of myself).

 

Unless very characteristic (Sudareba, ...) determining the smith, the school, from bad polish blades with poor pictures is impossible.

 

Don't be taken aback about my comments about bad pictures, I have never been able to take decent pictures of a blade. The best is to scan it, but here again you have to choose very carefully the scanner.

[Ffffrosty]

Hi Jean,

 

I'm not disappointed at all, VERY happy actually. It is REAL and it is very old, and I didn't pay and arm and a leg, so I'm happy.

 

As for the pic, no offense at all and I did think about using my scanner, so I'll give that a try today.

 

Thanks for the input and to be clear shinto narrows it's age down to 1600 and 1781, right?

 

I have read that shinto blades aren't the best, but then again I am not going to war with it, but did wealthy business men (non-samurai) order and carry wakizashi during this time period?

 

I'll run some scans and see how they come out... Thanks again!

[Jean]

Mark,

 

Shinto can be very very good and equal or can best a lot of shinshinto swordsmiths (Shinkai, kunihiro, Yasutsugu, kotetsu .....)

 

I tried to attach an article about scanning swords but I had a lot of problems doing it this morning now it works.

 

Beware that this cannot be done with all scanners, you have to select a good one, but it works well.

22680102c-1.pdf

[mdiddy]

Mark,

 

The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords by Kokan Nagayama is a title you should look into. You can find it for ~$50 and readily available at Amazon so it is not near as expensive compared to other books on Nihonto nor is it as hard to get ahold of. Moreover, it is just the fraction of a cost of a potential mistake down the road. It will provide a wealth of background on how to take your new purchase, assess all its distinct properties, and narrow down time period, school, maybe even specific smith. It helps a lot to have a blade in full polish but you would be remiss to not spend a couple of weeks with this book and now you have a hands on example as a study aid as you go.

 

Congrats on the purchase and best of luck.

 

Matt

[Ffffrosty]

Thank you both, great tips on scanning and the book.

 

I have had my eyes on the book for some time and will move forward with getting it on Amazon.

 

I'll see what I can do with my scanner as an experiment.

 

Let's see how they come out and I'll post them here.

 

So overall, not a bad sword, right?

[Marius]

 

So overall, not a bad sword, right?

 

Not bad. From what I can see on your pics, the tsuba might be cast iron, though. I might be wrong as I am over-cautious and usually completely wrong when it comes to a tsuba . Could you post some pics, please?

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

So overall, not a bad sword, right?

 

To be honest it is not the best i have ever seen. One thing interest me, the mune, is it kaku (flat)?

[Stephen]

you did fine for your first Nihonto

[Jean]

Not a bad sword. I have seen worse

[Ffffrosty]

Okay guys you're freaking me out here... you've seen worse... My pictures really do suck, because it is way better than what it looks.

 

Let me get on that scan, so I can show you what I see.

 

I'm just happy that as far as I can tell, there are no major flaws or damage and even though it needs a polish it has a very active hamon.

 

Can't really tell the hada, simply because I am not quite there yet on education, but it definitely has a hada.

 

At the end of it all is it work paying over a thousand for a full polish on it?

[Stephen]

At the end of it all is it work paying over a thousand for a full polish on it

NO

 

Enjoy it for what it is.

[Brian]

Mark,

You have to bear in mind that for a mid level collector, a wakizashi in polish worthy of papers is about $2500-4000. So getting a "seen worse" isn't too bad..it means you didn't buy one of those $500 "project blades"

You won't get people raving about how brilliant it is, as then why would we keep pushing people to save more and buy the best they can?

You did ok..the next one will be better, and in a few years you might have a Juyo blade or 2.

It's never going to be "brilliant buy" unless you spend the money to buy blades with good names, in polish with papers and watch for that deal for a year or 2. Up to that point, a "nice blade" is better than "you wasted your money" Enjoy it..it seems a solid blade that is a good starter piece. Use the money you would spend to polish it to save towards your next blade.

 

Brian

[Mark Green]

Hi Mark, and Gang,

Ditto, on what Brian said.

[pcfarrar]

It would be worth getting the tsukamaki redone, looks to be a very poor amateur job.

[Ffffrosty]

The clarity really helps guys, thanks.

 

I do have to understand that you all are at a much higher level than I right now, the good news is I paid $750 for this one and for my current level I am very happy.

 

I'll still work on the scans so we can at least MAYBE pin down more of an age and maybe more.

 

Thanks again everyone for the education.

[leo]

Dear Mark!

Blade looks a bit like Bungo Takada school, late Shinto,. After polish there will be a few openings visible, so I seriously question a new polish which exceeds 500 bucks. Mounting looks entirely homemade.

Brian is right. Save your money and rather invest in a nice polished katana, maybe with papers, starting at roughly 3000,-. With what you paid for your blade you did not lose money - not yet!

 

All the Best

Martin

[Mark Green]

Geesh mark,

Some body else "Bungoed" your sword. What did I tell ya.

Congrats!!! Everyone's first real sword should be a Bungo.

Mark G

[Jean]

Bungoed for sword = Shoamied for tsuba :lol: :lol:

 

It is an attibution by default - Milt "Bungo" the Ronin can speak at length of the topic.

 

I am not thrilled by the koshirae, tsuka wrapping but the blade in itself seems interesting. Problem: as it is not signed or papered, don't loose money in getting it polished.

 

Spare to buy something in full polish. Wakizashi are the cheapest in Ninhonto and you can find very fine ones for good $

 

After polish there will be a few openings visible

 

Nobody knows what will happen during the polishing process. I had a Kaneyasu shinto katana with some rust and long ware opening on the shinogiji. It came back from polishing as brand new without any ware, fantastic.

[Ford Hallam]

I'll second the comment by Mariusz that the tsuba looks to be a repro, cast jobbie . That in conjunction with the poor tsuka-maki ( as was also pointed out by peter ) makes me wonder if the tsuka isn't a put together job.

 

The rust on the nakago looks odd to me also...but that may just be the photos. You've got decent, old black rust which is as it should be, but also what looks like active red rust. I wonder if the nakago wasn't over-cleaned when the blade was scrubbed and an attempt has been made to repatinate the tang.

 

Personally I'd move it on asap and set my sights a little higher. No point throwing good money after bad.

 

Sorry to be so blunt about it but I don't believe it helpful to sugar the pill. It doesn't really matter that it only cost $750...poor quality remains poor quality even if it's free. The level you have suggested you're at is also greatly irrelevant....if you genuinely can't see the difference in material quality between this blade and some of the more reasonable offerings available on-line from reputable dealers then I don't think any amount of study will fix that. I think you may be kidding yourself.

 

If you are genuinely interested in learning about Nihonto then I'd suggest finding out what makes them so special. learning a little about the different aspects of the blade and develop an appreciation of which types appeal to you, personally. Then, armed with a better understanding of what constitutes reasonable quality and your own informed taste you might stand a good chance of finding a blade that will truly reward your efforts.

 

As has been pointed out, decent quality will cost some decent money. You will get what you pay for so aiming to spend as little as possible will rarely yield a blade worth treasuring.

 

regards,

 

Ford

[leo]

Hmm, interesting term that, to "bungo someone´s blade". Was new to me. Thank you, Mark Green, it might come handy someday, as so many "Bungos" were made.

Martin

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

The nakago jiri of this blade doesn't look like Bungo Takada which is mostly Ha agari kurijiri.

[Ffffrosty]

The feedback on the blade is appreciated.

 

To clarify where my eye and knowledge are, I am definitely a newbie and understand there is a huge amount to learn with regards to many aspects of this type of collecting.

 

With that said I must be clear with how I see this. I am not doing this for investment, for the ability to say I have a prestigious blade with pedigree or any thing other than appreciating the very real amount of time, effort, and focus that went into the creation of a blade that is for the makers was a religious and philosophical event. I also am grateful to hold something that has survived for over 200 years and is in amazing condition for it's age.

 

As has been pointed out and I will certainly agree my pictures are not doing this blade justice at all and my scanner looks even worse as they are out of focus.

 

Looking at it right now, I know what steel wool does to metal and I have VERY good eye sight. There is no sign of any scrubbing off of rust with steel wool on this blade at all and the pics of the nakago are not true to life either as there is zero visual sign in good light of any active rust (I double checked).

 

I do feel a polish would return this blade to a more pristine state visually, but also agree that it may not necessarily be the best choice for the blade, which for right now has no significant flaws other than not being the "prettiest girl at the dance".

 

Interestingly enough, I don't quite agree that the tsuba may be cast as there is no seam at all and the cloud or swirling water design is very intricate.

 

So at the end of it all, I appreciate the feedback and comments which help me track down this blade's possible history. I am very happy overall with it, and when I finally decide to spend more of my funds on a much more expensive blade hopefully it will be a well regarded blade. For now I am very happy with my date for the prom.