WW2... first timer here

[cypressnig]

My first post and first (i am assuming) gunto... Told it was brought over from Japan, of course, and saya looks like WW2. Tsuba looks naval.... Wondering if it is mass produced blade or some family heirloom. Thanks in advance!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Masanori, a Seki Kaji Toshi. Likely a nontraditional made Showato but need to see better pictures of the blade and Hamon to be sure. The Saya is a 'Type 3' style with metal scabbard, usually these have Showato blades.

[cypressnig]

4 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Masanori, a Seki Kaji Toshi. Likely a nontraditional made Showato but need to see better pictures of the blade and Hamon to be sure. The Saya is a 'Type 3' style with metal scabbard, usually these have Showato blades.

are these any good? if not ill take some tomorrow in daylight

[cypressnig]

[Bruce Pennington]

Sebastian,

Legit WWII Japanese officer gunto.  Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98.  It doesn't have an official label, but it was a 'Contingency Model' or in Japanese 'Rinji Seishiki', designed in 1938, but didn't 'hit the streets' until 1940 and not popular until 1943-1945.  Yours is dated Aug 1944.  Like John said, Masanori worked in the Seki prefecture.  There is a small stamp at the top of the nakago (tang) that is the small 3mm Seki stamp - Could I get a good photo of it?  It was used by inspectors of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, and is seen on non-traditionally made blade.  I don't like the 'machine made' label, as all blades made during the war, regardless of tools/machines/quenching methods, were made by hand, by people. 

 

You can read about these at the following sites:

Ohmura's Type 3 pages

History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya

Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940

[cypressnig]

ill go over nakago stamp soon,  and post it. any ideas on what the signature was on the soya? thanks so much for pointing me towards 1944 and the name... thats what i was looking for! now i will just do more research:) and probably come back to you haha(as a "royal" you).

[cypressnig]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Sebastian,

Legit WWII Japanese officer gunto.  Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98.  It doesn't have an official label, but it was a 'Contingency Model' or in Japanese 'Rinji Seishiki', designed in 1938, but didn't 'hit the streets' until 1940 and not popular until 1943-1945.  Yours is dated Aug 1944.  Like John said, Masanori worked in the Seki prefecture.  There is a small stamp at the top of the nakago (tang) that is the small 3mm Seki stamp - Could I get a good photo of it?  It was used by inspectors of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, and is seen on non-traditionally made blade.  I don't like the 'machine made' label, as all blades made during the war, regardless of tools/machines/quenching methods, were made by hand, by people. 

 

You can read about these at the following sites:

Ohmura's Type 3 pages

History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya

Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940

when you say not popular... sorry newbee here... but did they have a choice? and how did that work? any sources would be appreciated. doesn't have to be in english

[cypressnig]

nevermind, just got to the end of your post. sorry i started replying ahead of time. just so excited about my first one!

[PNSSHOGUN]

It was not as attractive as the Type 98 officers sword but certainly a more practical mounting for use in the field.

[cypressnig]

2 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

It was not as attractive as the Type 98 officers sword but certainly a more practical mounting for use in the field.

sorry for lack of knowledge, but was type 98 only for army?

[SteveM]

Saya says Yoshida (吉田), a typical Japanese surname.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Sebastian, yes, below are the designations of the officer swords:

 

1880's-1934: Type 8/19 Kyu Gunto

1880's-1937: Navy Kyu Gunto

1934-1938: Type 94 Army Shin Gunto  officers sword (these had two suspension rings and was of generally higher quality/finish)

1937-1945: Kai Gunto Navy officers sword

1938-1945: Type 98 Shin Gunto officers swords (originally identical to Type 94 except the second suspension was deleted. Fittings were simplified as the war progressed)

1940-1945: Type 3 Army officers sword

[Bruce Pennington]

You can read all about the various types and see tons of high-quality pictures of each on Ohmura's site:

 

Military Swords of Imperial Japan (Gunto)

[cypressnig]

18 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Sebastian,

Legit WWII Japanese officer gunto.  Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98.  It doesn't have an official label, but it was a 'Contingency Model' or in Japanese 'Rinji Seishiki', designed in 1938, but didn't 'hit the streets' until 1940 and not popular until 1943-1945.  Yours is dated Aug 1944.  Like John said, Masanori worked in the Seki prefecture.  There is a small stamp at the top of the nakago (tang) that is the small 3mm Seki stamp - Could I get a good photo of it?  It was used by inspectors of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, and is seen on non-traditionally made blade.  I don't like the 'machine made' label, as all blades made during the war, regardless of tools/machines/quenching methods, were made by hand, by people. 

 

You can read about these at the following sites:

Ohmura's Type 3 pages

History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya

Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940

Here is a stamp on top and it looks like a second stamp on the side of the tang

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Sebastian!  They are both the "Gifu" stamp: 

 

We don't know whether it was an Army acceptance stamp (leaning that way lately) or a stamp used by the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers' Assoc., who used to use the large Seki stamp until Army Inspectors absconded with it for their own use.  Either way, it passed inspection and is non-traditionally made.

[rancho]

On 10/5/2021 at 11:02 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

  Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98.  

You can read about these at the following sites:

Ohmura's Type 3 pages

History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya

Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940

Hey Bruce ive just read the links about the type 3 Rinji Seishiki that you share!!! A lot of info!!!

Very interesting!

Thanks for sharing this!!!

Eric