cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 My first post and first (i am assuming) gunto... Told it was brought over from Japan, of course, and saya looks like WW2. Tsuba looks naval.... Wondering if it is mass produced blade or some family heirloom. Thanks in advance! Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 Masanori, a Seki Kaji Toshi. Likely a nontraditional made Showato but need to see better pictures of the blade and Hamon to be sure. The Saya is a 'Type 3' style with metal scabbard, usually these have Showato blades. 1 Quote
cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Author Report Posted October 6, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 12:56 AM, PNSSHOGUN said: Masanori, a Seki Kaji Toshi. Likely a nontraditional made Showato but need to see better pictures of the blade and Hamon to be sure. The Saya is a 'Type 3' style with metal scabbard, usually these have Showato blades. Expand are these any good? if not ill take some tomorrow in daylight Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 Sebastian, Legit WWII Japanese officer gunto. Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98. It doesn't have an official label, but it was a 'Contingency Model' or in Japanese 'Rinji Seishiki', designed in 1938, but didn't 'hit the streets' until 1940 and not popular until 1943-1945. Yours is dated Aug 1944. Like John said, Masanori worked in the Seki prefecture. There is a small stamp at the top of the nakago (tang) that is the small 3mm Seki stamp - Could I get a good photo of it? It was used by inspectors of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, and is seen on non-traditionally made blade. I don't like the 'machine made' label, as all blades made during the war, regardless of tools/machines/quenching methods, were made by hand, by people. You can read about these at the following sites: Ohmura's Type 3 pages History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940 1 1 Quote
cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Author Report Posted October 6, 2021 ill go over nakago stamp soon, and post it. any ideas on what the signature was on the soya? thanks so much for pointing me towards 1944 and the name... thats what i was looking for! now i will just do more research:) and probably come back to you haha(as a "royal" you). Quote
cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Author Report Posted October 6, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 3:02 AM, Bruce Pennington said: Sebastian, Legit WWII Japanese officer gunto. Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98. It doesn't have an official label, but it was a 'Contingency Model' or in Japanese 'Rinji Seishiki', designed in 1938, but didn't 'hit the streets' until 1940 and not popular until 1943-1945. Yours is dated Aug 1944. Like John said, Masanori worked in the Seki prefecture. There is a small stamp at the top of the nakago (tang) that is the small 3mm Seki stamp - Could I get a good photo of it? It was used by inspectors of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, and is seen on non-traditionally made blade. I don't like the 'machine made' label, as all blades made during the war, regardless of tools/machines/quenching methods, were made by hand, by people. You can read about these at the following sites: Ohmura's Type 3 pages History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940 Expand when you say not popular... sorry newbee here... but did they have a choice? and how did that work? any sources would be appreciated. doesn't have to be in english Quote
cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Author Report Posted October 6, 2021 nevermind, just got to the end of your post. sorry i started replying ahead of time. just so excited about my first one! Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 It was not as attractive as the Type 98 officers sword but certainly a more practical mounting for use in the field. 1 Quote
cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Author Report Posted October 6, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 4:18 AM, PNSSHOGUN said: It was not as attractive as the Type 98 officers sword but certainly a more practical mounting for use in the field. Expand sorry for lack of knowledge, but was type 98 only for army? Quote
SteveM Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 Saya says Yoshida (吉田), a typical Japanese surname. 1 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 Hi Sebastian, yes, below are the designations of the officer swords: 1880's-1934: Type 8/19 Kyu Gunto 1880's-1937: Navy Kyu Gunto 1934-1938: Type 94 Army Shin Gunto officers sword (these had two suspension rings and was of generally higher quality/finish) 1937-1945: Kai Gunto Navy officers sword 1938-1945: Type 98 Shin Gunto officers swords (originally identical to Type 94 except the second suspension was deleted. Fittings were simplified as the war progressed) 1940-1945: Type 3 Army officers sword 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 6, 2021 Report Posted October 6, 2021 You can read all about the various types and see tons of high-quality pictures of each on Ohmura's site: Military Swords of Imperial Japan (Gunto) 1 Quote
cypressnig Posted October 6, 2021 Author Report Posted October 6, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 3:02 AM, Bruce Pennington said: Sebastian, Legit WWII Japanese officer gunto. Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98. It doesn't have an official label, but it was a 'Contingency Model' or in Japanese 'Rinji Seishiki', designed in 1938, but didn't 'hit the streets' until 1940 and not popular until 1943-1945. Yours is dated Aug 1944. Like John said, Masanori worked in the Seki prefecture. There is a small stamp at the top of the nakago (tang) that is the small 3mm Seki stamp - Could I get a good photo of it? It was used by inspectors of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, and is seen on non-traditionally made blade. I don't like the 'machine made' label, as all blades made during the war, regardless of tools/machines/quenching methods, were made by hand, by people. You can read about these at the following sites: Ohmura's Type 3 pages History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940 Expand Here is a stamp on top and it looks like a second stamp on the side of the tang Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 7, 2021 Report Posted October 7, 2021 Thanks Sebastian! They are both the "Gifu" stamp: We don't know whether it was an Army acceptance stamp (leaning that way lately) or a stamp used by the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers' Assoc., who used to use the large Seki stamp until Army Inspectors absconded with it for their own use. Either way, it passed inspection and is non-traditionally made. 1 Quote
rancho Posted October 17, 2021 Report Posted October 17, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 3:02 AM, Bruce Pennington said: Commonly called the "Type 3", but lately we've learned the version was a variant of the Type 98. You can read about these at the following sites: Ohmura's Type 3 pages History of the Type 3 by Nick Komiya Unveiling the Rinji Seishiki in 1940 Expand Hey Bruce ive just read the links about the type 3 Rinji Seishiki that you share!!! A lot of info!!! Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this!!! Eric 1 Quote
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