Tang Translation Help

[Lareon]

Was wondering what the translation on the tang is for this one, I've not seen the blade on this as I bought it unseen or I would share pictures of the whole thing.

 

Cheers!
Tony

[ChrisW]

The blade is a showato (machine made). The small mark above the nakago-ana indicates that, that one appears to be a Seki arsenal stamp.

[SteveM]

片岡国廣

Kataoka Kunihiro - as Chris noted, he is a Seki smith.

[Lareon]

thanks very much guys! 

[nickm]

And I thought I was a gambler! Buying a sword without seeing it is the whole other thing. Hope it works out

[Bruce Pennington]

NIce war sword, it's got personality!

 

And I would caveat about how it was made.  The large Seki stamps are found on some pretty well-made blades.  Often quite beautiful.  It could have been made by hand, in many ways traditional, but oil quenched.    So don't be surprised to find something quite nice when you see it.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Agree with Bruce, the fact the Mei has been cut fairly well means there is potential for a better finished sword than usual.

[Lareon]

  On 10/1/2021 at 1:56 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

NIce war sword, it's got personality!

 

And I would caveat about how it was made.  The large Seki stamps are found on some pretty well-made blades.  Often quite beautiful.  It could have been made by hand, in many ways traditional, but oil quenched.    So don't be surprised to find something quite nice when you see it.

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obviously once i have it in hand i will post new pictures (and numbers if any) for you 

[Lareon]

The blade is in good condition and has quite a nice midare hamon on it, if a little faint. 

I'll take some better pictures a bit later but here are a few of the blade

[Bruno]

Seki stamp never meant the sword is a non traditional showa-to.

 

The seki (and sho) stamps originated with a sword making guild in Seki as a marketing/quality control technique after lots of cheap swords were breaking in combat. They starting a quality control program that anyone could submit their blades for an inspection and receive the stamp. Once stamped, it was a sign that the blades were good for combat, so it became popular as a way to insure buyers that the sword was good.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 10/16/2021 at 6:06 PM, Bruno said:

anyone could submit their blades

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Bruno,

Do you have a source for that?  If so, I would find that significant to have.  In my digging, the only known source I could find was the Seki City website.  The Seki City website claimed “all” blades were tested and stamped, lending support to the opinion by some collectors that their particular blades are gendaito, regardless of the stamps’ presence.  But the website article was referring to showato and the impact “poor showato” were having on the industry.  So, it is still possible the testing and stamping was only done on showato.  In fact Ohmura, citing the number of Cutlery Assoc. inspected swords, states that traditionally made swords were not part of that tally because they weren’t inspected.  Since half of the blades in each survey had no stamps at all, many of them from the Seki prefecture, this could indicate they were gendaito, while the stamped blades were showato.  But your version still could be true.  Here's the original discussion with Nick Komiya:

 

"First, is what the Seki City site says about its cutlery industry in WW2. They have a long chronology chart of Seki City history and I provide the full translation of the first boxed section from the original below.

'Blade Manufacturing as Part of the Armament Industry

Because the United States and England adopted China-assisting policies in the early years of Showa, Japanese products were driven out of world markets, shutting off Japan’s exports. Thus the mainstay exports of Seki’s cutlery industry such as knives, dishes and kitchen knives took a huge hit and those producers were transformed into suppliers for the military.

During the war, Seki’s entire cutlery industry got drawn into supplying the military, and sword-smithery was once again a thriving industry. In those days, military swords were called Showa-toh to differentiate them from traditional Japanese swords, but as demand grew, bad quality Showa-toh appeared on the market, becoming a social problem. To counter this problem, the sword dealers of Seki devised a program to assure quality by having the Seki Cutlery Manufacturing Industry Association test all newly produced Japanese swords and stamped products that passed this test.

This quality assurance program, combined with the trainee program at the forge and efficiency improvements coming from specialization and job-splitting of the production process, allowed Seki swords to gain the reputation of being affordable yet high quality, leading to a 90% share of Japan’s entire market supply.

The sword industry of Seki in 1944 consisted of 49 smiths of traditional swords, 200 smiths of Showa-toh and 3,000 Polishers.'

Secondly, although the Ohmura site claims that the Sekiwake 関分 plant under the Nagoya Arsenal adopted the Seki stamp as their acceptance stamp, the code list from 1943 below attributes it to the Seki Supervisory Group of the Nagoya Arsenal, one of a total of 10 acceptance outposts of the Nagoya Arsenal. Note also that "Na" in Katakana was from the Iwahana Plant under the 2nd Tokyo Arsenal and it was the Kanji version that stood for the Supervisory Dept. of the Nagoya Arsenal. 関分 is clearly another mistake.

It is clear from the Seki City write-up that it was the non-traditional Showa-toh that invited the quality test and stamping and the later Sho in cherry blossom is obviously in direct reference to the distinction, "Showa-toh". I cannot imagine why he had to tie it to the Ministry of the Interior. Traditionally made Nihonto made by the 49 smiths were not called Showa-toh.

The site says "All newly made Japanese swords got tested", as if testing was not limited to Showa-toh that ruined the reputation earlier.

The Seki City History book consisting of more than a thousand pages will surely have more details. I just secured a cheap second hand copy of the 1999 issue, so in a few months, I should have a few more facts for you to chew on."

Source Link

 

So, as you can see, we still need more information.

 

[Lareon]

  On 10/17/2021 at 1:02 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Bruno,

Do you have a source for that?  If so, I would find that significant to have.  In my digging, the only known source I could find was the Seki City website.  The Seki City website claimed “all” blades were tested and stamped, lending support to the opinion by some collectors that their particular blades are gendaito, regardless of the stamps’ presence.  But the website article was referring to showato and the impact “poor showato” were having on the industry.  So, it is still possible the testing and stamping was only done on showato.  In fact Ohmura, citing the number of Cutlery Assoc. inspected swords, states that traditionally made swords were not part of that tally because they weren’t inspected.  Since half of the blades in each survey had no stamps at all, many of them from the Seki prefecture, this could indicate they were gendaito, while the stamped blades were showato.  But your version still could be true.  Here's the original discussion with Nick Komiya:

 

"First, is what the Seki City site says about its cutlery industry in WW2. They have a long chronology chart of Seki City history and I provide the full translation of the first boxed section from the original below.

'Blade Manufacturing as Part of the Armament Industry

Because the United States and England adopted China-assisting policies in the early years of Showa, Japanese products were driven out of world markets, shutting off Japan’s exports. Thus the mainstay exports of Seki’s cutlery industry such as knives, dishes and kitchen knives took a huge hit and those producers were transformed into suppliers for the military.

During the war, Seki’s entire cutlery industry got drawn into supplying the military, and sword-smithery was once again a thriving industry. In those days, military swords were called Showa-toh to differentiate them from traditional Japanese swords, but as demand grew, bad quality Showa-toh appeared on the market, becoming a social problem. To counter this problem, the sword dealers of Seki devised a program to assure quality by having the Seki Cutlery Manufacturing Industry Association test all newly produced Japanese swords and stamped products that passed this test.

This quality assurance program, combined with the trainee program at the forge and efficiency improvements coming from specialization and job-splitting of the production process, allowed Seki swords to gain the reputation of being affordable yet high quality, leading to a 90% share of Japan’s entire market supply.

The sword industry of Seki in 1944 consisted of 49 smiths of traditional swords, 200 smiths of Showa-toh and 3,000 Polishers.'

Secondly, although the Ohmura site claims that the Sekiwake 関分 plant under the Nagoya Arsenal adopted the Seki stamp as their acceptance stamp, the code list from 1943 below attributes it to the Seki Supervisory Group of the Nagoya Arsenal, one of a total of 10 acceptance outposts of the Nagoya Arsenal. Note also that "Na" in Katakana was from the Iwahana Plant under the 2nd Tokyo Arsenal and it was the Kanji version that stood for the Supervisory Dept. of the Nagoya Arsenal. 関分 is clearly another mistake.

It is clear from the Seki City write-up that it was the non-traditional Showa-toh that invited the quality test and stamping and the later Sho in cherry blossom is obviously in direct reference to the distinction, "Showa-toh". I cannot imagine why he had to tie it to the Ministry of the Interior. Traditionally made Nihonto made by the 49 smiths were not called Showa-toh.

The site says "All newly made Japanese swords got tested", as if testing was not limited to Showa-toh that ruined the reputation earlier.

The Seki City History book consisting of more than a thousand pages will surely have more details. I just secured a cheap second hand copy of the 1999 issue, so in a few months, I should have a few more facts for you to chew on."

Source Link

 

So, as you can see, we still need more information.

 

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Very interesting reading Bruce. Would love to see a definitive answer to this question.

[Bruno]

Hey Bruce,

 

I have got these infos during the numerous correspondences I had with Chris Bowen, sorry I don't know or remember the written sources.

 

What I can tell, and if I am not wrong is that the sho/seki stamps was a marketing technique created by some really smart business men in Seki to indicate the swords passed a quality control inspection for non-traditionally made blades so they are in actuality showato. Nothing decreed by the government, and the absence of a stamp isn't proof of anything except the blade didn't pass through the seki inspection.

 

 

The star stamp is also an inspection stamp which was used to verify that the blade met the specifications for the RJT program, which included the requirement that the blade be traditionally made with tamahagane, etc. So since we know that smiths were required to make swords with tamahagane and that the smiths received tamahagane, a star stamp is a de facto indication that the blades are traditionally made. The RJT program was a stable and good source of income for smiths- doubtful they would try to dodge the requirements and risk being removed.

 

So to summarize, the sho/seki stamp was a quality control for non traditionnal blades but the purpose was not indicate the blade was non traditionnal.

 

I hope I am clearer, sorry I can't explain better with my limited english.

[Bruno]

Here are the sources : 2 books

 

1) 真説戦う日本刀　

 

2) 軍刀組合始末　

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 10/17/2021 at 8:25 PM, Bruno said:

So to summarize, the sho/seki stamp was a quality control for non traditionnal blades but the purpose was not indicate the blade was non traditionnal.

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I like the way you summarized that!  Yes, Chris Bowen has real person-to-person interview testimony from smiths and polishers from the war.  I have a feeling we are dancing all around the truth, with the edges of it still a little fuzzy and hard to pin down, like a dim star you cannot see if you stare straight at it.  You have to look off to the side to catch sight of it sometimes. 

[Stephen]

Have we heard if Chris ever finished his book on wartime an post wartime smith's?

May be still in the works, It'd nice to have before i pass.

[Bruno]

Hey Stephen,

 

As far as I know he is still working on it. I think it will deal mainly about Tokyo smiths, not all gendaito smiths (too much work).

 

I agree, I too want to read it!