Some ideas on this hada?

[Christian]

Hi, i bought some swords in the past and came across one small Tanto with a hada that looks strange for me. It's hard to see with the eyes but I handle to made a picture of it. Any ideas what this is called? I know the state ot the blade is not the best...

[Bazza]

To give some perspective on the sword, how about shots of the bare blade both sides and tang both sides plus closeups of the boshi both sides????

 

The hada seems to be genuine enough to me, though.

 

BaZZa.

[Christian]

Sure, make sense 😉

[Shugyosha]

Looks like a combination of masame straight grain towards the mune and mokume wood-burl grain near the ha. The dark lines delineating the wood-burl are chikei. As Bazza says, nothing untoward there. 

[Christian]

Hi, thanks for the answers. I already read about chikei but was not aware what it actually is. Is it something what is good to see on blades or is it something what is very common. I just ask because i did not see it on any of my other swords.

[Shugyosha]

It’s not a flaw if that’s what you are asking. Some detail here:

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/jinie.html

[Christian]

Thanks for the link, yes this helps because it explains the difference between chikei as an effect from hardening and as a simple steel layer pattern from mixed steels. I think it is quiet similar to the difference from wootz steel and pattern welded steel.

[Rivkin]

Judging from hada alone this is something relatively modern, no earlier than shinto, and quite possibly much more recent.

There was a movement within shinshinto (Ikkansai and others), who experimented a lot with very high contrast hadas which they could heat treat only at very low temperatures, so you see almost no transition between hada and hamon, while the structure is quite vivid. 

[Christian]

Ok, thank you a lot. But shouldn't it be more prominent then? It is very dense and as i said it is hard to see with naked eyes. Maybe next picture explains it. The motohaba is 2cm. 

[Stefan]

Nice  little  late shinshinto tanto. Such hada  is not  uncommon  during this  time.

It is a pitty that the polish is in such terrible conditon. It seems that there is  intensive ji.nie.

Here is another example of such colour games, a little  bit  bigger pattern. ( Matsukawa style, but the blade is shinshinto )

By the way, there are no waves in the shinogiji, it is an light effect, still learning to photograph.

 

[Nobody]

Matsukawa-hada is also a characteristic of Kiyomitsu of Sue-Bizen.

 

 

[Sansei]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:16 PM, Nobody said:

Matsukawa-hada is also a characteristic of Kiyomitsu of Sue-Bizen.

 

 

 

Koichi, a question; when was the design on the blade done? Was it carved before or after the polishing and who would have done it - an artisan?

[Nobody]

7 minutes ago, Sansei said:

 

Koichi, a question; when was the design on the blade done? Was it carved before or after the polishing and who would have done it - an artisan?

 

I do not know. But I believe that it was carved long before I was born.

[Sansei]

1 hour ago, Nobody said:

 

I do not know. But I believe that it was carved long before I was born.

 

Koichi, actually my question was about the manufacturing process; that is, the process of making the blade itself. Not the names of the people or the historical facts. If a blade like this was to be made today, would the carving be done after the blade was polished or before?

[Stefan]

An  carving is done before the polishing. One  should  always keep in mind that one  slips  easly out with an engraving tool and  the slightest scratch will ruin the togis work.

[Nobody]

This is an old (about 30 years ago) and rather long video.

You can see the carving procedures and the blade conditions. 

 

 

[Marius]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:29 PM, Shugyosha said:

The dark lines delineating the wood-burl are chikei.

John, I believe they are often called chikei, but are the result of folding various sorts of steel. Real chikei are arrays of ji-nie and are a hallmark of quality. 

 

I guess, this is a question of nomenclature. However, when we call something chikei, we should not refer to what is an aspect of hada. For how should we then call those formations of ji-nie?

[Shugyosha]

Hi Marius,

 

I think there may be something here that I'm overlooking then. 

 

I did not get the impression that in Christian's blade that there was more than one kind of steel involved as was sometimes the case in shinshinto blades - had this been the case then I would have expected it to be apparent towards the blade's mune as the dark lines stand out above the hamon.

 

I was, however, puzzled by how the dark lines stood out around the nioi guchi both in the ha and the ji. Are you saying then that those are not nie?

[Christian]

Hi together, thank you for the good replies. As I am also a collector of european swords I am fimilar wird layer pattern in steel, but the structure on this tanto seems to be different, thats why I am asking here.

I added another picture where one can see that these lines are harder areas that stand out from (some long time ago) polishing.

It could be something with different steels but I also have such blades like Sansei was showing and they look pretty different to me.

 

 

[Marius]

@Christan

I believe it is called hada-tachi (hada that stands out). 

 

@John

I still think it is hada. But we'd have to see it in hand.

[Stefan]

It is hada. Chikei must consist of nie. this is not the case. Beside this hada  ji-nie is visible on the blade. The  very smal black points. I do not  mean the pinholes. I do think that marius is right, that the other thing is simple hada tach. this can be the result of polishing or the combination of two  or more sorts of steel. If one polishes a sword with mixed steel to hard, than it will be to strong hada tach.

This  hada tach can raise problems in meaning of seeing  other fine hataraki like ji.nie in the light reflex. Therefore honami said once that  a blade  like  sadamune should  never been polished hada tach. 

Just some  random thoughts about hada tach.

[b.hennick]

Stefan I do not know the term Hada Tach.  Can you please explain it to me.?

[Jean]

Hadatachi is a very strong/rough hada, not far from coarse. Visible generally on Northern blades (Etchu blades ….)

[Stefan]

B.Hennik : Hadatach means  the same  as  hadatachi. As  Jean  explained well, it means a strong, releif like  hada.

[b.hennick]

Thanks Stefan and Jean. I know the term hadatachi but I  thought that you had something else. I should have known as Japanese words end in a vowel or n.