how to read Japanese names

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi,there was a nice Tsuba at Ebay with Mei plus Kao.The Japanese owner made it "Tokujyu".When I didn't find that name in the various index books I looked into my Nelson for the different meanings of the 1st Kanji and there he was: Noritoshi (Haynes H 07416 from Seki).When I informed the owner that the artist is only known as Noritoshi,his answer was,that Noritoshi is only the other reading of the characters.He didn't change or expand his Ebay-entry.

When I created my private Tosogu-Mei-database (ca.5000 pics) there had been several (but not to many) artists,where the reading of the Go was different between western and Japanese authors.How did the various authors know how an artist and his contemporaries spoke his go or name!?Ludolf

[John A Stuart]

That's a good question Ludolf. I know when there is more than one reading I have had to do the same. Hit the references and see which reading that is listed matches the mei and which matches the work. Then there are the ones that no matter which reading are not listed. I suspect when the authors have that problem they must get opinions from others and enter what is most likely and agreed upon. There is probably mistakes in either case. John

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi John,if Haynes was a member of our board,we could ask him,why he used a name/reading different from the Kinko Jiten,when Wakayama and Iida e.g.read the 1st Kanji as "hide" and he as "teru" (following Joly and Hara!).In the Nihonto Meikan the reading is added to the Go's Kanji in Hiragana-characters!Ludolf

[John A Stuart]

Maybe when older references are used by authors to compile new books the old books don't have furigana for pronunciation and they transcribe the reading with which they are more familiar. I'll bet we have bad readings from old books written long ago redone even by authors within Japan in more modern times. Which reading would you consider correct? Frustrating, I think. John

[myochin]

I guess this is where the furigana helps.

Sadly, it is not always available, hence the confusion.

 

Paul.

[Markus]

Usually the Japanese stick to their predecessors, which means in our case to transcriptions

of the first classics like the "Sôken-kishô" (装剣奇賞) from 1781, the "Kôto-kinkô meifu"

(江都金工銘譜) from 1810, or the "Kinkô-tanki" (金工鐔寄) from 1839. Those works base upon

genealogies submitted and researched by and from the artists themselves. Here and there,

some furigana are noted within these records.

So when a furigana for example of an on´yomi like "Kôjô" was given for one artist of the

family, then the previous and following generations were also quoted in on´yomi.

But the "problem" is not so present in Japan because they "think" in characters, that means

they first and foremost remember the character, the actual reading is of "secondary importance".

Experiences in Japan had shown me that it is truly not that bad when one reads a name

(especially an old one) in the "wong" reading (i.e. kun or on´yomi). This is much more the

problem in the west because we can´t avoid to transcribe the name in any way.