Natsuo tsuba sold on Yahoo Japan

[terminus]

So when I first saw this tsuba I blew it off as fake, since well it's Natsuo and on Yahoo Japan, and additionally never saw this chicken in his sketchbooks before. That being said I just checked the auction results and it sold for $27,441! What's your thoughts about it? Think it's hopeful people with lots of money who just wanted to bid on something "Natsuo"? or is there more to this tsuba that I'm missing? 

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/l1001421571?conversionType=browsing_history

[Toryu2020]

To me, it is good work but looking at the feet the quality and level of detail there is just not up to the level of an artist like Natsuo. I think someone paid an awful lot for a fake...

-t

[1kinko]

Neither the composition, background nor detail is up to Natsuo standards.

[Curran]

If I was going to blow that much money out the airlock,

I think I would find a more interesting way.

 

[Stephen]

That's a big cock up!!

[terminus]

5 hours ago, Toryu2020 said:

To me, it is good work but looking at the feet the quality and level of detail there is just not up to the level of an artist like Natsuo. I think someone paid an awful lot for a fake...

-t

Agreed, the feet and the roughness around the chicken inlay is where I'm like rlly? no way it's anything close to the real thing. Also the composition and surface of the tsuba. 

[Brian]

@Ford Hallam ....
I expect he'll have a laugh at this one.

[roger dundas]

It is a real bugger (can I say that ?) to see such a price paid for a fake piece because it only encourages the fraudsters to come up with more 'grist for the mill', more fraudulent tsuba to feed a not very discerning public. And experts get deceived as well.

Sad really.

Roger j

[Tanto54]

One item to consider - this tsuba is probably not a "fake" in the sense that most are supposing (a modern counterfeit).  Instead, it was probably made by one of Natsuo's many students and may have even been approved for his signature.  If you research Natsuo deeply, you will find that this is very common - students made much or all of a piece and then either signed the Master's name or in some cases, the Master signed himself.  This is well documented with Natsuo (and many other schools).  If done with the approval of the Master, then it would not be considered fake, improper or immoral in Japan.  (and to avoid any misunderstanding - I'm not related to this tsuba in any way: I didn't sell or buy it, and I'm not commenting on the price...)

[rkg]

A picture of the piece (well, the nakago ana) is in Wakayama's Toso Kodogu Meiji Taikei (volume 2, p.260 if you want to look it up), so I guess at least he thought the mei was good, but....     That work really isn't (IMHO) - most natsuo stuff makes me go "ooh" - the workmanship on this doesn't...  George M's assertion that its a student piece that received a "courtesy mei" sounds like as good an explanation as any, though I guess we'll never really know (maybe he did it for a customer he hated/ordered something he didn't want to make, or...).

 

The auction was more fun to watch than the one for that beat up Myoju/Mitsuyoshi piece that was up not tooo long ago... 

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[Ford Hallam]

I'm with Richard, the mei itself does actually look pretty good, the Kao in particular, and that's hard to do. I know, I've tried

There are certain aspects that might be seen as Natsuo studio in terms of style and it's worth remembering he had a working studio of at least 12 artisans at the hight of his output so there may be all sorts of possible explanations for this tsuba's existence.

 

On balance though I'd have to say not by his hand. The whole thing ultimately feels a bit heavy and lumpen. And Natsuo was always so refined and elegant as a person and in his work. I dont yhink the mei had HIS approval and was either added after production, ato-mei, or the whole piece may have been made by an old student after the master's death and when on hard times.

 

[Spartancrest]

Has everyone missed that this guard has been mounted? How many Natsuo guards were actually fitted to a blade - does anyone know? 

I can't help wondering what sort of blade would have been of appropriate quality to be fitted with a top quality Natsuo piece [which most agree this is not]?

[b.hennick]

I've seen a whole issaku koshirae by Natsuo. So there is at least one.

 

[terminus]

Yeah, there's at least two issaku koshirae, both fairly famous:

^one of my favorite koshiraes of all time, incredible iron work
 

^from Darcy's website. "Blade is called Suiryuken due to the fantastic mounts with dragons and waves he made for the blade. The blade is now Juyo Bunkazai" -Darcy

Going back to the tsuba, admittedly that mei is looks quite authentic. 
 

[Spartancrest]

Can anyone think why you would disassemble a Natsuo koshirae - it seems to me the parts are still less than the whole?

[roger dundas]

The same mentality as that of vandals at work in the Melbourne Public Library in the 1960s or 1970s who removed many wonderful plates from a number of historic books using a razor blade or such.Prints of animals and birds particularly. Just wrecked the books.

Presumably to mount and sell on the Antique market which was very active at that time.

Roger j

[MHC]

Hey there Dale,

 

The forgers out there will go to any length to fool the buying public. It is very simple to add a few punch marks and place a soft metal filler piece at the Nakago-Ana, to give the illusion of being older and have been mounted on a blade.

 

However, all Tsuba's that I have seen that have been mounted, tend to show a shadow line/discoloration/rub marks, where Seppa's would have come in contact with the Tsuba over the years.

 

This example does not appear to show any such telltale indications.

 

So buyer beware.......

 

Mark