Ww2 gunto

[Misconstrued]

http://imgur.com/gallery/QqvxqouI 

 

Made a post ages ago with bad quality pictures, but now I was able to get them in a better quality. How would I be able to see the nakago. The mekugi pin as well, but not only the screw pose problems for me. I've never taken either of them out ever. This sword is at my grandparents house so when I do get photos of the nakago it'll be a bit from now. Any information is welcome

[Kiipu]

It is a Jinsen Arsenal made Type 95 Military Sword.  The serial number is hard to determine on this one, possibly ヘ300994 or ヘ301994?  It would be best to wait for @Stegel or @Shamsy to look at it.

 

Cross-Reference

Gunto identification help

[Misconstrued]

21 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

It is a Jinsen Arsenal made Type 95 Military Sword.  The serial number is hard to determine on this one, possibly ヘ300994 or ヘ301994?  It would be best to wait for @Stegel or @Shamsy to look at it.

 

Cross-Reference

Gunto identification help

Someone had said the blade mark looks fake? The lighting isn't the greatest to be fair, but could the blade mark possibly be fake?

[Kiipu]

Absolutely not!  The markings are correct for Jinsen Arsenal.  It is not unusual for numbers to be overstamped from this arsenal.  Also, there is no need to remove the handle on this sword.

[Misconstrued]

3 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

Absolutely not!  The markings are correct for Jinsen Arsenal.  It is not unusual for numbers to be overstamped from this arsenal.  Also, there is no need to remove the handle on this sword.

Is it safe to remove the handle to expose the nakago? I also want to check the condition to be able to get a heads-up. But I thank you for your time! I'll do a good amount on Jinsen Arsenal tonight!

[Kiipu]

To get you started on Type 95s, start with the link below.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info

 

And if this is not enough, and you plan on staying up all night, then try this.

Short Development History of Type 95 Gunto

 

[Bruce Pennington]

You simply unscrew the two screws that go through the handle. Then the whole handle comes off along with the handguard and spacers.  At the most you might see an arsenal inspector stamp on the tang after you get it off.  I take mine off to oil and clean them, but there’s no signatures or anything else in there to see.

[robinalexander]

J R, 

 

Nothing to be gained by removing the tsuka (handle), usually nothing at all on the tang.  You will not find any mei or swordsmith's signature.

 

BUT be aware that if you do remove it, you run the risk of breaking screws and generally just not being able to get it back together to fit as tightly as it does now!

 

I have a real softspot for the last of the Type 95's but they are machine made blades usually of low quality steel (not traditionally made). So in terms of skill or art, there is never anything special about the blade itself.

 

That would be the worst struck serial number I have ever seen (maybe its the bad picture) and it would worry me a little.  Is there any corresponding number on the throat of the saya (scabbard) ? Picture of mine attached.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Misconstrued]

1 minute ago, robinalexander said:

J R, 

 

Nothing to be gained by removing the tsuka (handle), usually nothing at all on the tang.  You will not find any mei or swordsmith's signature.

 

BUT be aware that if you do remove it, you run the risk of breaking screws and generally just not being able to get it back together to fit as tightly as it does now!

 

I have a real softspot for the last of the Type 95's but they are machine made blades usually of low quality steel (not traditionally made). So in terms of skill or art, there is never anything special about the blade itself.

 

That would be the worst struck serial number I have ever seen (maybe its the bad picture) and it would worry me a little.  Is there any corresponding number on the throat of the saya (scabbard) ? Picture of mine attached.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a number on the saya the last I checked and the last time I've actually held the sword in hand was in Christmas when I went over to my grandparents house, and I don't think I'll take the handle off now realizing the risks of it. But I will look the next time I go over!

[robinalexander]

JR, 

My message crossed over with Bruce's and he has a lot more experience than me but I suppose it comes down to personal choice. 

 

For me, I dont remove the handles from 95's ......a conservation/preservation thing.... although have to admit I did it once with a second stage 95.

 

If the numbers on the sword and saya match then that is a very good thing.

Rob

 

 

[Misconstrued]

4 minutes ago, robinalexander said:

JR, 

My message crossed over with Bruce's and he has a lot more experience than me but I suppose it comes down to personal choice. 

 

For me, I dont remove the handles from 95's ......a conservation/preservation thing.... although have to admit I did it once with a second stage 95.

 

If the numbers on the sword and saya match then that is a very good thing.

Rob

 

 

If I ever were to get the handle off, I'd honestly just go to a nihonto expert. While something can still go wrong with that, it's better than me doing it. But I think I won't anyway, since I really don't want to take a risk with a family heirloom.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

By removing the tsuka, you run a 50/50 chance, like Rob mentioned, that the tusba/seppa will be a bit loose after re-assembly.  Don't know why, but it's a well known issue for the 95s.

[Misconstrued]

41 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

By removing the tsuka, you run a 50/50 chance, like Rob mentioned, that the tusba/seppa will be a bit loose after re-assembly.  Don't know why, but it's a well known issue for the 95s.

Do they ever paper guntos? I don't believe they do unless they're gendai, or other traditional swords. But I do plan on making a list of all the information I've gathered and print it out to have.

[Stegel]

Thanks for some better photo's JR after your last post.

This is the 6th distinctive pattern of the type 95 model.

As Thomas said made by the Jinsen Arsenal, not Nagoya, and i agree with him that the stampings are correct.

 

It differs to the previous pattern by having the serial numbers in the 300k range, instead of the 200k range.

The knurled/ cross hatch handle is also more bulkier than before, with more finer knurling .  With this pattern, it is the first time we get to see the wooden scabbard which was the replacement for the metal ones. 

You will not find any serial numbers on the scabbard, for some reason this practice was discontinued with this model, so only on the blade itself.

The next two patterns only had the arsenal inspection stamps and NO serial numbers on the blade, as well as the scabbard.

Looking at yours, it does appear to be a bit messy, however over-stamping was common on these, especially with the first digit, 3 over the 1.

If you get a chance and get a good look, you should find more inspection stamps on both the scabbard and sword fittings. (ヘ) and maybe get a nice sharp picture of the serial number itself.

 

As Rob and Bruce also mentioned, there is not much to see under the handle if you remove it, and there is a good chance it may not go back together nice and tight again, i personally would leave it alone, especially since it appears to be a family heirloom of yours.

You will never get these 'papered' as they are all machine made, not traditional, so 'nihonto' experts will not be able to tell you much more.

[Bruce Pennington]

Pictures added for posterity

[Misconstrued]

12 hours ago, Stegel said:

Thanks for some better photo's JR after your last post.

This is the 6th distinctive pattern of the type 95 model.

As Thomas said made by the Jinsen Arsenal, not Nagoya, and i agree with him that the stampings are correct.

 

It differs to the previous pattern by having the serial numbers in the 300k range, instead of the 200k range.

The knurled/ cross hatch handle is also more bulkier than before, with more finer knurling .  With this pattern, it is the first time we get to see the wooden scabbard which was the replacement for the metal ones. 

You will not find any serial numbers on the scabbard, for some reason this practice was discontinued with this model, so only on the blade itself.

The next two patterns only had the arsenal inspection stamps and NO serial numbers on the blade, as well as the scabbard.

Looking at yours, it does appear to be a bit messy, however over-stamping was common on these, especially with the first digit, 3 over the 1.

If you get a chance and get a good look, you should find more inspection stamps on both the scabbard and sword fittings. (ヘ) and maybe get a nice sharp picture of the serial number itself.

 

As Rob and Bruce also mentioned, there is not much to see under the handle if you remove it, and there is a good chance it may not go back together nice and tight again, i personally would leave it alone, especially since it appears to be a family heirloom of yours.

You will never get these 'papered' as they are all machine made, not traditional, so 'nihonto' experts will not be able to tell you much more.

I heard late war guntos like these are more rare and collectible, I never do plan on selling the sword ever, but how rare and collectible is this gunto?

[Stegel]

10 hours ago, Misconstrued said:

I heard late war guntos like these are more rare and collectible, I never do plan on selling the sword ever, but how rare and collectible is this gunto?

These Jinsen Arsenal swords were made in the last few months of the war before its end in August 1945.

To date i have only seen them in the serial number range of 300k to 302k, so only some 2000 were actually made if you go by that.

So they are 'rarer' than the more highly prized (and priced) 1st Pattern Copper Handled version, where some 6500 were only made.

[Misconstrued]

49 minutes ago, Stegel said:

These Jinsen Arsenal swords were made in the last few months of the war before its end in August 1945.

To date i have only seen them in the serial number range of 300k to 302k, so only some 2000 were actually made if you go by that.

So they are 'rarer' than the more highly prized (and priced) 1st Pattern Copper Handled version, where some 6500 were only made.

Wow, I didn't know that! That's really cool! I didn't think it was that rare.

[Misconstrued]

56 minutes ago, Stegel said:

These Jinsen Arsenal swords were made in the last few months of the war before its end in August 1945.

To date i have only seen them in the serial number range of 300k to 302k, so only some 2000 were actually made if you go by that.

So they are 'rarer' than the more highly prized (and priced) 1st Pattern Copper Handled version, where some 6500 were only made.

If you had an estimated price range for one of them, what could you price it? Not that I want to sell it, more so out of curiosity.

[Kiipu]

On 8/27/2021 at 9:30 PM, Stegel said:

... and maybe get a nice sharp picture of the serial number itself.

 

Pictures of the serial number posted in a new thread.

Late war gunto stamps follow-up

[Kolekt-To]

On 8/28/2021 at 7:54 PM, Misconstrued said:

If you had an estimated price range for one of them, what could you price it? Not that I want to sell it, more so out of curiosity.

Not sure about the Jinsen Arsenal swords, but swords of this type in decent condition can go for $1200.00+ USD.