Koto sword recently won on eBay any feedback appreciated

[Utopianarian]

Recently acquired blade on eBay. Blade 27.25 inches cut down blade. Apparently it was sadly buffed down by someone in an amateur attempt to clean blade. The shape appears intriguing to me maybe late kamakura/Nanbokucho. The auction seemed to have a lot of interest for a blade in such condition being 18 bidders trying to obtain this blade. I paid $920 plus shipping and tax  to win auction which I don’t know yet if that was a smart move or not. It comes with nice two piece Habaki. Hard to see hamon in photos. What are your thoughts based on limited pics. Thank you

[PNSSHOGUN]

Looks like a real headache, not sure what you're seeing in this one.

[mywei]

Looks like someone has taken the blade to a grinder to buff it? Going to need a lot of further investment to restore the blade which may or may not be worth it in the end - as long you're aware

 

[Utopianarian]

Yes, You are right. Further investment for sure for proper polish. The shape appears like early blade and looks like there still is a lot of metal on blade despite the amateur buffing. Just wanted your thoughts regarding blades shape and possible era

[Utopianarian]

Here is A pic of 2 piece Habaki that it was fitted with. I know it’s a gamble but fun to find out more about the blade in the future

[Utopianarian]

[AntiquarianCat]

I hope it’s not rude to ask, but was the vendor someone like Showa22? It reminds me a lot of his buffing jobs.

 

Personally I try to stay away from those since it causes geometric damage to the sword, obscures most features you would use to appraise, and getting a proper polish to fix it is going to cost many times the price of the sword. Also if the grinder has removed too much metal, upon a polish it will be tired at best.

Your hamachi is also pretty worn, indicating it might already be tired. 

 

I like the nakago and suriage shape regardless. For some reason suriage swords are cool in my head. It sort of testifies to their character and continued use across multiple periods.

[Utopianarian]

I got it from btreed3. No it’s not Showa22 or samurai monkey. I was banned from showa22 when I asked him questions a few years ago about some sketchy obvious problems with some buffed doctored up blades he was peddling on eBay. I guess he prays on newer buyers. Yes I know this one has a lot of questionable things stacked against it but thought it was worth the gamble on this one. I lucked out on an Aoe sword a year ago on eBay from a random lady selling mostly garage sale type stuff on eBay which she wasn’t your typical dealer or bubba buffer on eBay. That sword was looked at by a reputable trained togishi which agreed it was a healthy Aoe blade currently in wait for polish. It was left to her by her recently deceased sister whom in turn was left from her deceased husband whom brought back after the war. Occasionally good finds are out there. Had a lot of strike outs tho 

[Brian]

Someone spent a lot of money on that habaki, so they valued the sword. Good luck, it's always a gamble.

[BIG]

HI GEORGE, you joined the board since may 2018. DID YOU learn anything about NIHONTO ?

 

BEST

[Utopianarian]

YES PETER, may I ask as to why YOU are showing interest inquiring into me specifically. PLEASE elaborate. 

[Utopianarian]

Tic toc tic toc… still awaiting words of wisdom from BIG D*** or little peter whatever this great story teller goes by these days. Brian I’ll remove myself from the board. No worries. Apologies 

[francois2605]

Don't leave the board just because of one unfortunate comment. Don't forget all the others who commented politely in your thread

[French nihonto]

The problem is that habaki is almost more valuable than the blade. (market value of course).
On the other hand, it is possible that the blade is a beautiful historical value if it is kamakura.

cordialy

[mywei]

For what it's worth I agree it looks koto but not sure based only on sugata. Could also be muromachi imo

[ROKUJURO]

I don't see a very early blade. To me it looks more like KANBUN era.

[Bazza]

I thought Shinto ...

 

Hey George, do stay please.  I've immensely enjoyed your posts.

 

BaZZa.

[paulb]

Think I am in the shinto camp too. I would guess early Edo but that is purely on shape. I don't see anything that suggests Kamakura or Nambokucho but again that's just based on shape and nakago. As Brian says someone valued it to have that habaki made for it (assuming it isn't a swap) but it is a gamble

good luck and keep us posted with what you discover

[Brian]

Peter,
You aren't known for rude comments, and I enjoy your posts. Not sure where this one came from, and I only hope it is a result of language differences and came out not as intended.
Guys...we are all grown-ups here. No need for insults.

[Stephen]

My opinion really doesn't matter because your going to do what you're going to do anyway.

Patina on the nakago looks late shinto, the sugata remind me of a loyaltist blade. Good luck on future rolls of dice.

[Bruce Pennington]

11 hours ago, Utopianarian said:

Here is A pic of 2 piece Habaki that it was fitted with. I know it’s a gamble but fun to find out more about the blade in the future

 

Thanks for the close-up!  Threw me at first .... I thought "Wow, never seen a triple habaki before" but then realized the outer piece had protected the original finish underneath on the second piece, giving it a 2-tone look. 

[vajo]

Good luck with the sword George. 

Did you have the sword in hand?

[Alex A]

Reminded of Kanbun too

 

Also, maybe not suriage but made to look suriage

 

and if suriage, no great care was taken and the nakago looks a bit odd now, which is not a good sign.

 

But anyways, good luck.

[AntiquarianCat]

I guess some of the pictures do give it a fat middle that tapers later on, like kanbun. It also doesn’t have the robustness or big kissaki I’ve gotten used to with nanbokucho so I wouldn’t be surprised if it were kanbun after all. Although the buffing and other wear probably makes it hard to look for features that would narrow things down better.

 

The only question then is why would a Kanbun look osuriage? Was this an attempt to make a newer sword look older? That reminds me a bit of the doctored shinshinto I ran into a while back.

[Alex A]

Just speculating, difficult from those images.

 

You do come across Kanbun O-suriage.

[sabiji]

...if the Habaki was made for this sword at all. I also think it is a Shinto sword. And O-Suriage it does not have to be. Maybe it's really just missing the actual nakago jiri because the cut went through a hikae mekugi ana of an ordinary Shinto nakago.

[DoTanuki yokai]

This shape looks shinto, but it could be also an old sword that indeed lost most of its sori that could have been koshizori due suriage.

Ofc it could also be mumei shinto with little changings to the nakago to look like O-suriage.

Even if the habaki is original to the sword i think that means nothing for the potential value of the sword.

Based on this pictures i  can not say what it is.

You should try to see what the Boshi and the Hada in Shinogiji is doing, maybe you can make something out with it in hand and the right light.

I would also check the inside of the lower mekugiana for a difference in rust, i think it would be different if it is significantly older.

[Bazza]

I'm intrigued too by the straightness of he nakago mune causing an unnatural (to me) narrowing to the nakago jiri meeting the curve from the ha.  With the remnant mekugi ana one can imagine an upsweeping mune and nakago with (perhaps) a lost fumbari.  With a present nagasa still at a healthy 27.25 inches/69.2cm the blade is possibly an o-suriage tachi.  I think it is time to seriously consider a window in the blade and also the boshi.  I think there maybe more to yet be revealed ...

 

BaZZa.

[reeder]

I am btreed3 on eBay. I started this at $1 and thought it was koto but I’m more of a gendai collector so I could easily be wrong. I’ve been purging my collecting the past 12 months and focusing on stuff I want to restore. I have 5 blades in Japan at the moment and this was in the queue but had plenty more in front of it as well. I have a no questions asked return policy if you decide you don’t want to take the risk of polishing or whatever other reason you may decide. 

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

1 minute ago, reeder said:

I am btreed3 on eBay. I started this at $1 and thought it was koto but I’m more of a gendai collector so I could easily be wrong. I’ve been purging my collecting the past 12 months and focusing on stuff I want to restore. I have 5 blades in Japan at the moment and this was in the queue but had plenty more in front of it as well. I have a no questions asked return policy if you decide you don’t want to take the risk of polishing or whatever other reason you may decide. 

top fella @reeder!!