Tachi in Shirasaya

[MichaelZWilliamson]

A friend of mine with an extensive collection of militaria, much of it WWI and WWII, has passed away.  I agreed to help the family identify and find homes for his collection, that they didn't even know existed. For years I've been helping him sell sabers, bayonets, uniforms, etc.

I have photos of two swords that appear traditional, though I doubt either are significantly valuable.  I'll post one at a time so there's time for clear discussion.  I also have several for the military forum, both forged and stamped.

 

This tachi appears to be relatively recent, and the shinogi ji appears to my eye to have been buffed.

 

 

 

 

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

I can send an enlargement of the first image. Apparently my site compressed it.

[mywei]

Kurihara Hikosaburo Akihide kitae kore

Showa 8 (1934) 

October

栗原彦三郎昭秀鍛之

昭和八年十月日

tempered for Prime minister Saito Makoto

内閣総理大臣齋藤實 焠之

 

Looks to be a potentially historically significant blade

 

Any more pics of blade up close?

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

That could definitely bring a few thousand if the family needs it. There will be plenty of interested buyers for a sword like this.

[dwmc]

There surely had to have been a high end koshirae for this sword ?  Would it happen to be stored away among his possessions also ?

It would certainly add to significance and value!

 

Dave M.

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Not necessarily, not that unusual to find these special order swords in their original Shirasya without ever having mounts.

[vajo]

Saitō Makoto - Wikipedia

 

Some interesting infos.

[Nobody]

FYI, there is a similar katana on sale for 2,480,000 JPY, which was made one month earlier by Kurihara Hikosaburo and tempered by Prime minister Saito Makoto. The katana has Tokubetsu Hozon of NBTHK.

 

Ref. 内閣総理大臣斎藤実所持刀超豪壮『下野住人彦三郎昭秀造之』特別保存刀剣保存会鑑定書 (kusanaginosya.com)

 

[mywei]

Ah I misunderstood in my translation - Saito Makoto actually tempered the blade himself when he visited the Nihonto Tanren denshu-jo

Very interesting 

13 minutes ago, Nobody said:

FYI, there is a similar katana on sale for 2,480,000 JPY, which was made one month earlier by Kurihara Hikosaburo and tempered by Prime minister Saito Makoto. The katana has Tokubetsu Hozon of NBTHK.

 

Ref. 内閣総理大臣斎藤実所持刀超豪壮『下野住人彦三郎昭秀造之』特別保存刀剣保存会鑑定書 (kusanaginosya.com)

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1933

[MichaelZWilliamson]

3 hours ago, dwmc said:

There surely had to have been a high end koshirae for this sword ?  Would it happen to be stored away among his possessions also ?

It would certainly add to significance and value!

 

Dave M.

 

We will look.  Unfortunately, both of Gary's parents were hoarders, and he wound up with their house plus his, and there's so much stuff it will take volunteers and a dumpster to sort.  I'm going to do what I can to ensure the newspapers and Better Homes and Gardens don't get mixed up with NFA Form 4s and potential sword documentation.

Among other Japanese artifacts he had an intact Type 2 Paratrooper carbine, a pristine Type 44, a Type 97 sniper rifle with scope and case, a unit pennant and imperial flag.  And things like the issue of Stars and Stripes with the headline LAST US FORCES LEAVE SAIGON.

[Tom Darling]

The nakago has an old shape, very interesting.  Please take some larger pictures of the blade, both sides. How long is the cutting edge?  You must have German WWII relics.  What a headache to empty the house. My sister is the Queen hoarder, large house, you need a map to walk through the place. Plus seven full sheds, garage, and two large trailers. Her daughter, my niece who lives in Maryland, will have a fit, she hasn't got a clue. And, has four cars in her driveway. Good Luck.

[Peter Bleed]

Indeed, a very interesting sword. Great discovery that was well shared with the NMB

Peter

[dwmc]

2 hours ago, MichaelZWilliamson said:

We will look.  Unfortunately, both of Gary's parents were hoarders, and he wound up with their house plus his, and there's so much stuff it will take volunteers and a dumpster to sort.  I'm going to do what I can to ensure the newspapers and Better Homes and Gardens don't get mixed up with NFA Form 4s and potential sword documentation.

Among other Japanese artifacts he had an intact Type 2 Paratrooper carbine, a pristine Type 44, a Type 97 sniper rifle with scope and case, a unit pennant and imperial flag.  And things like the issue of Stars and Stripes with the headline LAST US FORCES LEAVE SAIGON.

 

I suspected the possibility of the situation you mentioned. However, as John (PNSSHOGUN) suggested, it may have never been in mountings. Although, it definitely would be prudent to watch closely while sorting through items. I'm a militaria collector also, and am sure there will be many interesting things...

 

Best regards and good luck,

 

Dave M. 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

32 minutes ago, dwmc said:

 

I suspected the possibility of the situation you mentioned. However, as John (PNSSHOGUN) suggested, it may have never been in mountings. Although, it definitely would be prudent to watch closely while sorting through items. I'm a militaria collector also, and am sure there will be many interesting things...

 

Best regards and good luck,

 

Dave M. 

While he was alive I helped him sell an entire box of portapees, an entire box of WWI uniform epaulets, Prussian and Bavarian sabers, dozens of bayonets. I still have a handmade Japanese pillow cover. He has a hundred or so authentic German beer steins. It's all mixed in with junk.  I'm hoping to get some volunteers together when I'm free mid August to dig through a couple of rooms.

[Mark S.]

It is stories like this that remind us why some blades get separated from their papers, koshirae, etc.  Things like this happen and not everyone is lucky enough to have someone step in and assist with keeping things together. 

[reeder]

Digging through everything is a ton of fun!

[MichaelZWilliamson]

37" straight measure of the blade.  38" along the curve. Minimal nicks that don't seem to exceed .015" by comparator.  What I thought was scrapes on the shinogi ji appears to be varnish or lacquer, which is why the little rust there is is spidery.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

16 minutes ago, reeder said:

Digging through everything is a ton of fun!

Yes, but, we're literally talking two hoarder houses, basement to attic.  Deactivated machine guns we hope have stamps--my daughter and I are going to dig them out, strip them down, and my firearms attorney is doing the favor of making ATF queries, so if the receivers have to be cut, the parts kits are available, and hopefully they can be Form 5ed and restored. That includes a Japanese Type 99.  Can't find the magazine for the G43 or the loading tool for the Luger drum.  I already have the G41.  There were trade magazines, tactical treatises in German and Japanese, postcards. He hosted the local anime club and there's literally several THOUSAND home-recorded tapes that will mostly have to be dumped.  DVDs.  Folders of papers. 95% is junk, but the other 5% is historically important. He had a kyu gunto I previously asked about when he was alive, and we found two more in the basement with all these others.  My time is limited due to deadlines, though my wife will let me use what time I do have to help them.  Neither his sister nor niece are fully abled, so I'll be doing all the climbing and digging.  But my display at the next gun and knife show is going to be AMAZING on their behalf.

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Apparently not buffed. Painted with varnish. Hence the streaks.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Not great pics of the blade, but what I could do here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can email any pics in high def for detailed exam.

 

 

 

[SAS]

Old dried oil?

[MichaelZWilliamson]

11 minutes ago, SAS said:

Old dried oil?

I don't think so.  There's no tack at all, and the color looks like varnish. I could try using denatured alcohol or acetone to remove it.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Here's the other traditionally forged and mounted blade. I see at least two cold shuts in the surface layers.

 

 

 

 

apparently he didn't get pictures of the blade or saya. I'll do my best with some better lighting.

[MichaelZWilliamson]

I cleaned the varnish off the tachi, and found three cracks. Two are completely through the hamon.  I hate to bring bad news, but obviously, that's important information.

 

In this location, as shown by the cord.

 

Establishing shot.

 

On microscope:

 

 

 

 

[b.hennick]

That looks like a fatal flaw called hagiri - a crack through the hamon. 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Yup, two of them, and a third crack, and they never get smaller.

[ChrisW]

That's unfortunate..

[ROKUJURO]

These are definitely HAGIRE, but the blade may still have some historical value. The Prime minister was obviously not trained in YAKIIRE......

And I like the TSUBA.

[lonely panet]

how regretable, only value is the nakago now hahhaha