Newly acquired civil sword

[KB1107]

Hello all,

 

I’m new to this forum so please forgive me if I’m not doing something correctly. I usually post my sword questions on a different forum... but a member there told me to use this forum (Thanks Bruce!). I’m more of a WW2 gun collector than I am a sword collector... however, I find swords very interesting!

 

Onto why I’m here, I recently purchased a sword in an online auction that had only two blurry pictures. I looked at them and wasn’t quite sure if it was an original civil sword or a reproduction. I decided to put a bid of $100.00 and roll the dice. Go figure... I won! I received the sword yesterday and I was quite pleased that it wasn’t a repro!

 

Of course, it’s not in the greatest shape... blade had surface rust and a few nasty black spots from moisture and no lube. The saya came in two pieces and missing a couple of parts. All in all... I think I did well for $100.00! The tsuba is of iron construction with gold inlay. I was kinda thinking it might have been from the Edo period because of the deep rust on the tang (No maker signature). I was able to clean the blade with some oil to remove a lot of the rust (Don’t worry the tang is untouched).

 

i was able to contact the seller who wasn’t able to give me much history on the sword. He informed me that his grandfather was in the Navy during WW2 and most likely brought this home after the war. The grandfather passed away recently... while cleaning out his house they found this sword in a closet. Nobody in the family knew he had this sword. The seller took the sword to a couple antique dealers and was told that it’s nothing but “Scrap Metal!”... Others weren’t able to give him any information on the sword. So... all this ended in him auctioning off the sword. 

 

I guess my question would be... is it possible to date this sword from the tang? Sometimes I think I see characters under the rust but it could be my eyes playing tricks on me... or a strange rust pattern.

 

Anyways, I need to find a couple pieces for the saya and a replacement for the wooden dowel in the handle (it fell apart). 

 

I cant get great photos of the tang... the rust is much darker than what my camera is showing.

 

 

[KB1107]

I’m not quite sure how to post all the photos... it won’t let me post all at once

[KB1107]

[KB1107]

Sorry but I’m unable to post anymore pics... won’t let me

[SAS]

I think I can see some faint kanji on the nakago also, but can't read them from the photo; the active rust should be stopped, and maybe something more might be visible then. Looks to have some age to it and worth investigating further.

[Brian]

44 minutes ago, KB1107 said:

Sorry but I’m unable to post anymore pics... won’t let me

It will let you. You can post plenty pics. Take it slow and make use of https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/8-forum-technical-details-and-maintenance/

[kissakai]

Don't forget these is a size limit on attachments. You can see the limits when you start a new post

I make sometimes make my images a little smaller if there are a few to show

[KB1107]

Ok... gonna try resizing...thanks

 

Also, to stop rust on the tang? I thought the tang wasn’t supposed to be messed with? Oil?

 

Thanks all,

D

[KB1107]

Last one...

[Grey Doffin]

Hi David,

Nothing needs to be done to the tang; leave it alone.  I don't see a signature; I think the sword is unsigned.  You need to whittle a new peg for the handle and you need to do it ASAP.  Without the peg (mekugi) the blade can fall out of the handle and and break its point, either when it hits the bottom of the scabbard or when it hits the floor after it passes through your foot.  Find a bamboo chopstick for this.

Here is a care and etiquette brochure you should read twice:

https://nbthk-ab2.org/sword-characteristics/

and scroll down.

You did very well with your $100; the tsuba alone is probably worth that or more.  I see what look like openings (defects) on the blade and if that is the case you didn't buy a treasure, but still a real, traditionally made Japanese sword.

If you have a bunch of questions you'd like answers to, I'm in central time US and happy to help if I can.

Grey  218-726-0395

[ChrisW]

A real deal and a steal at $100! Where am I when all these auctions end?? Nice catch!

[Shugyosha]

[Shugyosha]

The kashira has a bit of a Higo look to it. Is there the bit of metalwork that sits on the other end of the tsuka (fuchi)? 
 

Sell the tsuba and you’ll get your $100 back. Gggggrrrrrr….

[KB1107]

2 hours ago, Grey Doffin said:

Hi David,

Nothing needs to be done to the tang; leave it alone.  I don't see a signature; I think the sword is unsigned.  You need to whittle a new peg for the handle and you need to do it ASAP.  Without the peg (mekugi) the blade can fall out of the handle and and break its point, either when it hits the bottom of the scabbard or when it hits the floor after it passes through your foot.  Find a bamboo chopstick for this.

Here is a care and etiquette brochure you should read twice:

https://nbthk-ab2.org/sword-characteristics/

and scroll down.

You did very well with your $100; the tsuba alone is probably worth that or more.  I see what look like openings (defects) on the blade and if that is the case you didn't buy a treasure, but still a real, traditionally made Japanese sword.

If you have a bunch of questions you'd like answers to, I'm in central time US and happy to help if I can.

Grey  218-726-0395

 

 

Hi Grey,

 

Thank you for the informative information. Chopstick? Perfect easy fix!

 

As far as questions about this sword? I don’t really have any... it is what It is... not the greatest but still a piece of history. I do have one questions... what kind of Kolguchi am I looking for? Not the same as the military version? Also, is there a way to make the sword tighter? I don’t know if the two Seppa’s that came with this sword are the correct ones. There’s a lot of play between them and the tang... very loose. At the very least I would need at least one more Seppa, possibly two. Other than that, I think I’m good to go and will look for the next project.

 

Thank you again,

David

[KB1107]

1 hour ago, Shugyosha said:

The kashira has a bit of a Higo look to it. Is there the bit of metalwork that sits on the other end of the tsuka (fuchi)? 
 

Sell the tsuba and you’ll get your $100 back. Gggggrrrrrr….

 

Yes, the Fuchi is there. I can add a photo when I go back upstairs...

 

Thanks for the post,

David

[KB1107]

1 hour ago, ChrisW said:

A real deal and a steal at $100! Where am I when all these auctions end?? Nice catch!

 

I usually say the same thing! This time it actually happened... I was actually expecting a repo... 

[KB1107]

Pic of Fuchi

[vajo]

I didnt see any kanji under different filters.

 

[KB1107]

16 hours ago, Grey Doffin said:

Hi David,

Nothing needs to be done to the tang; leave it alone.  I don't see a signature; I think the sword is unsigned.  You need to whittle a new peg for the handle and you need to do it ASAP.  Without the peg (mekugi) the blade can fall out of the handle and and break its point, either when it hits the bottom of the scabbard or when it hits the floor after it passes through your foot.  Find a bamboo chopstick for this.

Here is a care and etiquette brochure you should read twice:

https://nbthk-ab2.org/sword-characteristics/

and scroll down.

You did very well with your $100; the tsuba alone is probably worth that or more.  I see what look like openings (defects) on the blade and if that is the case you didn't buy a treasure, but still a real, traditionally made Japanese sword.

If you have a bunch of questions you'd like answers to, I'm in central time US and happy to help if I can.

Grey  218-726-0395

 

15 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

The kashira has a bit of a Higo look to it. Is there the bit of metalwork that sits on the other end of the tsuka (fuchi)? 
 

Sell the tsuba and you’ll get your $100 back. Gggggrrrrrr….

 

37 minutes ago, vajo said:

I didnt see any kanji under different filters.

 

 

Thanks for looking... I agree, nothing but rust.

[SAS]

You will get a variety of opinions from photos, but definitive answers are best obtained by in hand inspection by qualified people.